[Medicineman]

In any case, like I said before, you can use a Smartlink (get the +2 Accuracy) in a Spam/Static Zone, you just might not get the full benefits from the Wireless Bonus (+2 dice)

That is right, but the Smartgun and the Smartlink have to communicate with each other somehow to get a Bonus !
And that is what I said before

Technically SR5 uses terms like "Static Zone" or "Remote" which refers to areas that have high Noise Ratings.

And if the Noise rating is so high that it brings Wireless communication to cero a static zone turns into a Dead Zone, right ?

They basically state out-right that there is no such thing as a place where there flat-out is NO Matrix

what about .....
Desert, Jungle, Arctic Environment,Valleys,  or the CZ (Containment Zone of Chicago)

with a Dance in an extreme Environment
Medicineman

[Banshee]

Quote
In any case, like I said before, you can use a Smartlink (get the +2 Accuracy) in a Spam/Static Zone, you just might not get the full benefits from the Wireless Bonus (+2 dice)
That is right, but the Smartgun and the Smartlink have to communicate with each other somehow to get a Bonus !
And that is what I said before

Honestly that may very well make sense in a real world situation, however as written the only thing effected is the wireless bonuses

Quote
Technically SR5 uses terms like "Static Zone" or "Remote" which refers to areas that have high Noise Ratings.
And if the Noise rating is so high that it brings Wireless communication to cero a static zone turns into a Dead Zone, right ?

pretty much ... at least that's the way we interpret it for Missions

Quote
They basically state out-right that there is no such thing as a place where there flat-out is NO Matrix
what about .....
Desert, Jungle, Arctic Environment,Valleys,  or the CZ (Containment Zone of Chicago)

there is still technically a matrix there ... the questions is can you over come the noise level to get a signal through

[kyoto kid]

...as I recall the noise level was very high (don't remember the exact number).

As the character was also an adept, had to be careful with Essence to not go under 5.  A datajack would have cut it real close.

Really could have used a skinlink for the smartlink and vision enhancements on the Ballistic Mask.

[Banshee]

again, I can't say this enough noise level (aka static, remote, or dead zones) only effect the wireless functions of devices and therefore only effect the wireless bonuses

page 421
When an item has additional functionality when connected to the Matrix, it’s described under the “Wireless” entry in the item’s description. This functionality only applies when the device has access to the Matrix, which is most of the time unless your gamemaster says otherwise, like if you’ve entered a wireless static zone. If there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230).

also as note in regards to what this thread started about ... skinlink would also not have any effect on this either
skinlink would most likely make it harder if not impossible to hack your PAN because your would be in direct contact with all of your linked devices but without matrix access you still would not have any wireless functionality and therefore wireless bonuses ... which I think is why it does not exist in 5E since it is kind of pointless

now there is a technomancer echo of the same name, but the big advantage there is that techno's can now slave devices to their living persona and creating a PAN by physical contact

[kyoto kid]

...guess it's time to go throwback and "jack in" again.

That +2 pool bonus would have been real handy to have on the last Mission, especially on one particular occasion.

[gradivus]

I have a phone and a bluetooth headset... it doesn't matter if I have wifi or not, it works.
However, I can only play what music is on the phone.
If I'm connected to wifi I can run pandora or spotify (the matrix bonus for this item)

Smartgun systems can still link to smart link (just as my phone links to the headset) and so you get the+accuracy bonus just because the two devices can communicate with each other normally..

What connecting to the matrix does, is provide the smartgun system more processing power and up to date  information to compensate for things like wind so you get a +2 DP bonus.

With the advent of the router, you can connect the datajack to the weapon and get wireless functionality. How this is suppose to work for a smartgun system is beyond me as the text on smartgun system indicates it uses the matrix for information. 

[kyoto kid]

...prior to 4th ed, there was no need (nor way) for a smartlinked  gun to talk to the matrix, or for that matter, cyber implants and most other gear (save for cyberdecks, telecom units, and simsense decks).  All the bonuses offered were granted completely through their internal systems and sensors as it was not a "wireless world" back then.  The only "wireless" comm (phones transceivers, radios,  etc.) was over radio or cell frequencies which were separate from the Matrix. A Commlink back then was nothing more than an implanted frequency scanner that assisted with the use of other implanted comm gear.  Other than this, everything was "hardwired", and therefore, it's own self contained independent system. The only way to gain access from outside, would be to physically jack into the item or implant or person's datakack.

Archaic in comparison to "today's" (the 2070s) wireless world? Yes, but still very functional. Systems from (or designed and built on the principles of) Pre Crash 2 era tech are what are termed "throwbacks" in the current game world.  By logic, they should function just as well as their wireless counterparts, granting their full bonus for whatever task they are designed for without the need for involving the Matrix "cloud".

[gradivus]

the Bluetooth equivalent that ares predator IV used to connect to the smartlink is being interfered with by special jamming signals so that us consumers need to buy updated model... but that's only in civilized areas, so it should work fine in matrix blackout areas.

but eriously, SR5 Core 232:
Some devices don’t have wireless capability. Usually
this is because the person who bought the device
couldn’t afford one that was less than ten years old, or
because they thought they’d be more secure without
wireless. These devices are called throwbacks. Throwbacks
can’t be accessed by wireless connection, so they
can’t be controlled remotely or get a wireless bonus for
being connected to the Matrix. They still have universal
data connectors, so you can connect to them (and hack
them) by jacking in directly.

<emphasis mine>so whatever made the old predator IV work to get the DP bonus just doesn't work anymore.

But wait: Sail Away Little Sister
ARES PREDATOR III
A favorite of law enforcement in the 2060s, the Predator
III combines a rugged frame with a menacing appearance.
Its integrated smartlink system is incompatible with
modern wireless protocols and requires a translator program
and either a fiber optic cable or skinlink to interact
with modern PANs. Older, pre-Crash 2.0 smartlink systems
(such as the one possessed by Lieutenant Lydia Bowden)
require no such adaptations to function properly with the
pistol.
<again, emphasis mine>
so SR3 weapons require a translation program but SR1/SR2 work just fine....

Well then, give me my SR2 Ruger Thunderhawk

[kyoto kid]

...so according to SASS, an older smartlinked weapon and if one had an "old school" implant and a hardwired connection with a datajack the weapon would work as it should (granting all bonuses) without needing to talk to the Matrix. 

[gradivus]

By SASS, yup...
but I believe it's just another example of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.
These writers should all get to gether and hash things out before muddying the waters further.

[kyoto kid]

...so by that token, one could just put in their character background that they started with an "older model" smartlink implant and gun as that's all the street doc as well as her fixer could find at the time (thus bypassing all the wireless issues like noise and being hacked).

Or they could be older, back from before Crash 2 when all gear and 'ware were hardwired.

[Marcus Gideon]

You could do that...

But I'd probably treat it like the Lassiter in Firefly.

"Do you think it'll still fire?" *spark sputter fizz* "Oh well, still worth a fortune."

SR1-3 were what the 80's thought "the future" would look like. SR4 finally admitted that modern day had completely surpassed their expectations, so they started adding in modern marvels like WiFi. And SR5 went back and rebalanced things after they went overboard and let anyone with a smartphone become a hacker.

So now SR5 has much more balance and checks in place. Risk vs reward in the form of wireless vulnerability. If you want the extra dice, you have to open yourself up to potential attack.

No cheating. No antiques. Sorry =)

[Novocrane]

after they went overboard and let anyone with a smartphone become a hacker

I must have started playing 4th edition after that. Low DR commlinks are more capable of hacking in 5e than they were in 4e.

[Marcus Gideon]

Until they came out with Data Trails, and let people plug in an Attack or Sleaze dongle, Commlinks couldn't hack anything in SR5.

In order to actually hack, you need some amount of Attack or Sleaze rating so you can perform those actions. Commlinks only have Data Processing and Firewall by default.

[Strange]

I think some of you are under the impression that the wireless bonus has something to do with your connection with your device. The wireless bonus you get is because of the information your device gets from the martix, not the device itself.  In other words, when you are using your sniper rifle and are connected to the matrix, it pulls humidity, wind, and weather information and uses ARO'S to help you.  You don't get wireless bonuses if you 'jack in' with a data jack because you still aren't connected to the matrix.  All that does is eliminate noise to specific devices, it won't help eliminate noise to the matrix.  You do get accuracy bonus because you are still receiving information from your device via your PAN, and other info (bullets left in your mag, barrel temperature, etc).

I think they mislead with the term 'wireless bonus'.  It should be 'matrix bonus'.