[Senko]

I'm curious it's theoretically possible for someone's religion and tradition to be different when making a character. For example a devout Christian who's a vindaloo mage. Logically your tradition should go off your personality so your usually going to have the two match up. However I'm wondering is there any examples in the novels/game of someone with Differing/opposed religious beliefs and tradition? Not just trained and awakened as something that came as a surprise but a practising X who's casting according to Y tradition?

[MijRai]

Vindaloo?  You mean Voodoo, or spicy potato Indian dish?  I'd totally make a curry mage...

There's probably a good number of the non-religious Traditions with religious followers; Hermetic magic doesn't obviate the presence of religion, for example.  I guess you could do a Catholic with a form of the Voodoo tradition if they follow more along some paths.  But a Catholic practicing Asatru, or Shinto?  Unlikely. 

[Marcus]

No reason u can't from mechanics point of view. Some could go together better than others. I'd have a hard time believing a aesirr following devout catholic. But plenty of others would work together fine.

[Reaver]

There are some religions that have their own magical traditions, so it is highly likely that someone who identifies with a faith to follow that tradition, and that tradition only.

There are exceptions, just like in real life, but it doesn't really make much sense with your examples... cause you have listed two seperate faiths! (Voodoo is a religion that pulls on both catholic and regional pagen beliefs and rolls them together...)

That's kinda like saying "I'm christian, but I only follow the teachings of the Quran".....

[Haywire]

IIRC, major religions like islam, christians and judaism have each one a different view on magic. Chatolics forbid magic at all aside from an order of casting priests (order of St. Sylvester). Jews have the Quabbalah, a tradition itself with elements from quabbalah and hesoterics, but made of rabbi. Islam had the most radical view: all awakaned are of Shaitan and shall be destroyed, until 2050-ish where limited forms of healing magic were accepted. Spirit (Djinns) summoning is banned, as they are viewed as demons. More on this topic should be in MITS (3rd edition).

[Medicineman]

hmmm
If You're a devout Christian than I doubt that you can "Mix" your Faith with Voodoo so much as to play a Voodoo Tradition Mage
In 4A you could form your own Tradition. I f.E. played a Cao Dai Mage and a follower of Mother Earth.
So (ImO) you should define the Faith of your Char and create his own Tradition, together with your GM, using the 4A Rules

With his own Dance
Medicineman

[Kiirnodel]

If it helps. In the first Shadowrun Novel, the main character is a Christian and then "slowly" awakens to magic, and actually becomes a Shamanic Tradition Mage following Dog as his totem. This was written before the traditions were widened out however, so Christian Theurgy wasn't really a thing.

But based on that, I would say that it would be pretty reasonable to be a devout character that follows a certain religion, but when it comes to magic you have a more "non-denominational" view. Basically, you just are Hermetic or Shamanic, which are still by and large the most common traditions, even though you are (for example) Christian.

[SmilinIrish]

+1 for opinions above.  Most traditions outside of Hermetic, Shamanic and Chaos are religions (or at least a philosophy that replaces religion).  I can't see mixing two in one character.  Magic is about belief, I think.  If you are devoutly Christian (and for all practical purposes in SR this seems to mean Catholic), I can't see your Magic tradition following another tradition that is based off of a religion.  Maybe a character who grew up Catholic, still goes to Mass to keep grandma happy, but is a closet pagan.  That makes sense.  But I can't see a devout Christian being Voodoo, as I imagine Christians seeing spirits as either angels or demons, and being possessed by any spirit should be totally taboo for a Christian.  Because if you are a follower of Voodoo, you aren't a devout Christian, you left that for the Voudan religion. 

Buuuuut, I can totally see a devout Christian being hermetic, chaos (especially non Catholic Christians) or even shamanic traditions.  Shamanic would be the worst fit though, due to traditional Christian views regarding spirits, and animist religions of old. 

Last thought, I can imagine a person who believes they are a devout Christian, who begins following Voodoo, and still thinks they are a Christian.  The Christians would no longer agree (heretic!).  Now we move into different territory...

Kind of hard to claim a religion when no one in that religion accepts you as practicing the same faith as they do. 

[Beta]

I don't know -- I think there was a long history in and around New Orleans of going to mass on Sunday and confessing your sins, but calling on the local Voodoo priest(ess) for most other issues?  Granted, this is more historical than contemporary, but it shows that for many people, the two were not mutually exclusive.

And "devout" can have different shades of meaning.  Does it mean that you hold the beliefs strongly?  That you reject all other interpretations of things?  That you follow the strictures of your religion and its leaders to the letter?  That you take care not to be caught breaking any of rules of your religion?

[Kincaid]

I'm totally adding a pink mohawk Jews for Jesus sect.

[Sendaz]

Wouldn't that be Pink Payots instead?


TselelRun™

[Raiderjoseph]

My character is a Christian (maybe theist might be a better term. But he has a somewhat christian upbringing.) who follows a totem as a mentor rather then a god. I know several Christians that if they obtained magic powers that wasn't proven to be utterly demonic in origin or like blood magic (and perhaps even then...) would not give any sort of crap about having them and would be utterly elated to have them(myself included). Some Christians are kinda lazy or as I like to calm them "loopholish" about what constitutes as religious. If we wanna give a real world example one of my best nerd friends is gay. I honestly don't care. Seriously. I don't even care enough to find some reason to justify hanging out biblically. It doesn't come up in conversation. I don't judge people unless they do something extremely vulgar or immoral or were part of some corruption process of an otherwise amazing cartoon channel. *cough* Miley Cyrus *cough* If you want realism you gotta understand that some mainstream religions have more the their fair share of lazy followers. Also my choices in this matter have to do with morality. But I'm not here to toot my own horn or defend my religion. But from my perspective if your going for realism I could easily see Christians in the shadowrun universe using their magic without really regarding what they are doing as wrong or trying to justify it somehow. Up to an including using a tradition completely counter to their religious beliefs which would make them, stupid, lazy, in denial, or just straight up lying about it. A Christian of Shinto(it's an religion in of itself)tradition would be an example of this. Which would make one ponder how the cuss they got that tradition in the first place. But that's where roleplay comes in. Just my two cents. Don't underestimate the power of apathy. And don't place too much value in common sense or sanity or dogma. I mean it's not like Christians in the past have warped the bible for their own personal gain. (Looking at you Cortez.)

[SmilinIrish]

My point was made regarding devout followers of a faith.

I view the religious magic traditions as being used by the devout followers of a religion. If you say you are Christian, but you learned magic from a Shinto, and all your use of magic is filtered through the lens of Shintoism, my thoughts are that you would end up being Shinto.

Apathetic Christians are the result of people not being invested in their own beliefs. In Rome in 300 AD there were no apathetic Christians. Similarly, if your practice of magic is embedded in a belief system, I don't see how you practice magic without being invested in that belief system.

 I see it more likely that an apathetic Christian would either follow ther hermetic, chaos or maybe shamanic traditions.

Of course, that's how I see it. It's not like there is some munchkin reason for having a Christian Shinto Mage. Makes for interesting role play I'm sure. I guess I'm just theorizing that it would be unusual.

[Raiderjoseph]

My point was made regarding devout followers of a faith.

I view the religious magic traditions as being used by the devout followers of a religion. If you say you are Christian, but you learned magic from a Shinto, and all your use of magic is filtered through the lens of Shintoism, my thoughts are that you would end up being Shinto.

Apathetic Christians are the result of people not being invested in their own beliefs. In Rome in 300 AD there were no apathetic Christians. Similarly, if your practice of magic is embedded in a belief system, I don't see how you practice magic without being invested in that belief system.

 I see it more likely that an apathetic Christian would either follow ther hermetic, chaos or maybe shamanic traditions.

Of course, that's how I see it. It's not like there is some munchkin reason for having a Christian Shinto Mage. Makes for interesting role play I'm sure. I guess I'm just theorizing that it would be unusual.

Ah. I misunderstood. My apologies if it seemed like I derailed a thread.

[Senko]

@Raiderjoseph
I didn't think so and its my thread.

@General
Yes I meant Voodoo not Vindaloo autocorrect strikes again I was ready for mage to make since my phone refuses to admit "mage" exists but I missed Voodoo to Vindaloo.

Interesting ideas here especially the one about not realizing your veiws are heretical or worse realizing it and embracing it especially for an NPC villian "Trust me christ is all about blood and sacrifice you symbolically eat his flesh and drink his blood every day in mass this is just an extension of that." all leading up to a massive blood ritual to summon a blood spirit.

I admit I personally tend towards the shinto tradition more than the others because it appeals to me on a lot of flavour reasons but I'm not sure I'd call myself a Shintoist when it comes to religion. I'm not anything really but if I was put in a "Choose a religion or we chop off your head" situation I'd be likely to go for that but that's another discussion.

Anyway this does bring up the question about the opposite side of the coin, that is for these religious traditions (nearly all of them) how much of what you practice is religious in nature. To use the cahtlicism example is a mage of the catholic tradition merely sharing their general views (this is an angel, that is a demon, this is appropriate), are they a worshiper (attend church on sunday, pray at night, confess their sins) or are they a full fledged priest (take all the vows, able to perform marriages and funerals etc)? I know there's plenty of examples in books of shamans following a mentor spirit (dog, cat, bear) and not being a SHAMAN of a tribe but are they merely shamanistic mages or are they shamans who are lousy at doing their job? Especially for the ones with a heavy spirit influence (Shinto, Shaman, Voodoo, etc) where do the spirit and human worlds cross? If Dog choose sam to be her Shaman does that make Sam a SHAMAN with no tribe and no training as far as the spirit world is concerned or does that merely make him a mage of their tradition? If you see what I mean?

I can very easily see a native American awakening to the Shamanistic tradition and protesting their NOT the tribes medicine man while their mentor Coyote sits their grinning and arranging things to ensure the silly stubborn human learns the lessons they'll need to become the priest(?) they're meant to be for their tribe.

Given that priesthood is a human concern more than a spiritiual one (in terms of licensing, etc) what happens to a mage who awakens as one of those religious traditions do they just get magic training or do they get trained under the assumption they'll become a priest of X when they graduate. That is in addition to being taught arcana and magical theory you get taught the theology of your traditions religion and then take your vows of priesthood at the same time? To give an example Medicineman, myself and another lets call him ED are all found by a corporation and given magical training in school he awakens as a Shaman (I assume from the name), I awaken as a SHintoist and Ed awakens as a Hermetic mage. We all have the magical trainining but am I trained to be a Shinto priestess while Medicineman is trained in the theology of the native american people in addition to that?

@Medicineman
Which book has the make your own tradition stuff because there have been a few characters I'd have liked to do that for.