[Rooks]

Anyone make rules on customer made cyber decks? looking at the tables it seems to be about 12000-8500 to increase a matrix attribute wondering if anyone else figured this stuff out before hand.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Yeah, no.

Modifying things, which is what you're referencing from Data Trails, is a whole other ballgame than building a highly complex, technological device from scratch.

Look at what RCCs have to offer; there's a single device I might consider letting a character make on his own, and that's the aptly titled scratch-built junk.

[CitizenJoe]

I brought up this concept years ago for DND... You are either tied to fate, in which case you can develop things that change the game world, i.e. developing gun powder... or you are not tied to fate (adventurers) in which case you can do adventure type stuff like defying fate.  That includes things like killing a fated person before their time, or doing humanly impossible things like killing dragons or not having to use the restroom.

In shadowrun,  this means you're either a shadowrunner, or a plot device.  No inventing new technology, you simply don't get visited by the creative muse to allow it.

[CitizenJoe]

That being said, with the way Matrix architecture is designed, I don't have a problem with a deck being a network of components scattered all over the place, while accessed from a single device, like a commlink. 

[Marcus Gideon]

That being said, with the way Matrix architecture is designed, I don't have a problem with a deck being a network of components scattered all over the place, while accessed from a single device, like a commlink.

Except that distance based Noise is measured from one antenna to the other. Depending on how "scattered" your components are, you may have compounding Noise penalties just for device operations, not to mention distance to target.

Commlinks are basically smartphones in size, but function like a home PC.

Cyberdecks are tablet / laptop in size, but function like an ultra high end gaming PC. Tons of RAM, ridiculous CPU speed, and all the software you could ever want. Specifically, software used for hacking since that's what ASDF ratings really measure. Rather than outline every single program and subroutine you have at your disposal for hacking into somewhere, they just give you a numerical rating to say how good your software is. That's what you're doing when you modify a device to have Attack or Sleaze, you're installing the basic package of Attack or Sleaze software.

So no... I don't think anything about the Matrix architecture would allow you to cobble together a Deck from "scattered" components. Not unless you started at the Foundation, and made yourself a Host in the cloud.

[Rooks]

Ya, except previous versions you were able to and even RCCs have "Scratch Built Junk" even had rules on how to make your own vehicles so there goes that theory out your window

[CitizenJoe]

If you hardwired your components into the grid then the distance wouldn't matter.  If it did, then the whole cloud tech system falls apart.

[Marcus Gideon]

I was addressing Joe, since the idea of "scattered components" makes me think he's talking about a toaster in this house, a microwave in the house down the street...

However, I'd like to think that it's possible to order the right components and put it together yourself. You could either order a gaming PC from Alienware... or you order the case, the motherboard, the video card(s)... and you build it yourself on your kitchen table. Usually ends up being cheaper that way too.

So I could imagine making a Deck at home, with the right parts and tools. However, all those parts are going to be Restricted, since the final product is Restricted. You can't just use an ordinary processor salvaged from a high end Commlink, it has to be a very specific grade processor that can handle the level of computing a Deck is for. Stuff like that.

Basically, I don't think it's as simple using the Mod rules to ramp up a random device and make it into a legitimate Deck. But it "should" be doable, in theory. Of course, I'm pretty sure earlier editions actually gave prices and mechanics for such a thing. Here in SR5, the company line for Matrix stuff is "no one knows how it works, it just does."

[Marcus Gideon]

If you hardwired your components into the grid then the distance wouldn't matter.  If it did, then the whole cloud tech system falls apart.

"Hardwired" and "Grid" don't go together. The Matrix at large is like the internet, there is no singular source. Plus, it's all wireless these days, so there is nothing to hardwire into.

The whole cloud tech excuse for Hosts (aside from being total BS) is b/c they share processing power among every device in the world. Which means so long as you're in range of any devices (including the one you're using to get online) then you're within range of part of the Host(s).

[CitizenJoe]

No, it isn't all wireless. There's still the wired matrix integrated into the wireless stuff. 


What I'm suggesting is something like a bunch of computers hooked up directly to the grid, i.e. the wired matrix.  That may as well be a single device as far as the top level use is concerned.  I agree that there is some delay in the wireless connection back to your network of components, but so long as they aren't prohibitively far away, like the other side of the planet, that isn't so much of an issue.  If you plug your commlink directly into the grid someplace, then your distance to target becomes the distance from a wired access point to your target.  I might further stipulate that is would be a public access point since private ones would need some hacking to get into.

[Marcus Gideon]

No... it's pretty much all wireless these days. There may be a hardlined network inside a secure facility, to prevent hackers in the parking lot from stealing all their secrets. But there are no more trunk lines running from LA to NYC (at least not any still in use). The modern Matrix has gotten too fast for the old infrastructure, which is why they switched to wireless technomancy.

So there is nowhere for you to plug directly into "the Matrix" anymore. You get a Grid subscription, which is like a cell carrier / ISP, and you access the cloud like everyone else.

[kyoto kid]

Ya, except previous versions you were able to and even RCCs have "Scratch Built Junk" even had rules on how to make your own vehicles so there goes that theory out your window

...I still remember those days. Took a lot of skills, tests, and downtime but it could be done.  Back then the fluff was, you weren't taken seriously by many in the decking community if you were running with someone else' stock off the shelf  hardware (as well as software).

Had one of my deckers build herself a custom deck that was a cut above the Renraku Kraftwerk (the most powerful deck you could get at chargen which just by itself without programmes cost about half your resources at priority A).  Used a lot of lifestyle (middle to support having a workshop) and fortunately made a number of good rolls which really cut the base time for a lot of tasks.  Needed to use Excel in RL to manage the process and crunch all the numbers. Came out with an MPCP as powerful as the next model up, faster response, faster I/O, and better hardening for about 60,000¥ less than the base (non street indexed) price of the Kraftwerk.

As a GM, loved being able to create new vehicles as well. Had several of my own types/brands in my campaign from cars, to transport aircraft to even an LAV (with a railgun) and an SSTO spaceplane.

[Mirikon]

There's a BIG difference between modding a deck you bought to suit your style, and creating a brand new deck from scratch. Is it phsycially possible? Sure. And you might be able to build a sports car that goes 200 MPH in a machine shop with parts you got at AutoZone. It just ain't bloody likely.

We're not talking about getting a pile of components and building your own PC, y'know? Things are more complicated than that, and actually producing hardware for computers generally needs specialized equipment and clean rooms. Again, not something you could do in a normal electronics shop. I wouldn't allow it with less than a Facility and high ratings in the Hardware skill, for starters. On the other hand, modding something you bought/stole is much simpler, easier, and already has rules in place.

[kyoto kid]

...2nd and 3rd ed both had very detailed rules for deck construction in their respective Matrix supplements, that involved using components, specialised tools, and "cooking" your own chips.  As I mentioned, it was very complicated and time consuming (hence needing to use Excel to keep track of all the steps, time, materials, and costs) but it could be done in a workshop with no penalty.  One needed to maintain a minimum Middle lifestyle throughout the process to support his or her own shop.

You got better bonuses with a facility if you could afford or "rent" time in one (and not many characters could, even those who made it to prime runner status).   

[Mirikon]

And this is neither the Matrix nor the cyberdeck of 2nd and 3rd ed. Name's the same, but everything else is different.