[gradivus]

I should have seen that coming

[Malevolence]

I should have seen that coming

Ba-dum *crash!*

[gradivus]

I should have seen that coming

Ba-dum *crash!*

Well one bad pun deserves another.

“Hey boy, what’s the idea jackin’ that pot up under me?  Jack?  Pot?  Ahuh, huh … jack pot, that’s a joke son, don’t ya get it?"

Of course, I'm dating myself <I think there may be another pun in there somewhere>

[Medicineman]

Gradivus
Take Your Meds and go to Bed ! ( you have an unpleasant Date tomorrow, better grab some Sleep ...Now ! ...)

HougH!
Medicineman

[Gatlack]

@Herr Brackhaus
@gradivus
@Marcus Gideon

I know you must be thinking that I'm dense. I am not.

My argument only arose, because I read the german rulebook first. The way they translated it, one would add the wireless bonus of a smartgun to every take aim action (on top of the usual wireless bonus to the dicepool).
Then I read the english rules, and I got the feeling it could be a false translation. However nothing in the english language that I know of would prevent the reading the official translaters did.

If it would be just this sentence under "Wireless Smartgun"

When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses with each action of aiming.

It would be unambiguous.

To my understanding of the english language, in the original text it would require the addendum of the bolded part to be unambiguous.

A wireless smartgun connection provides an assortment of bonuses, but this table only provides the bonus you get while using it to attack. When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses of the "Take Aim" action with each action of aiming.

Otherwise it could be read like the official translators did.

Thanks for your time and stop smashing your desks with your heads, I can hear it.

[Herr Brackhaus]

To my understanding of the english language, in the original text it would require the addendum of the bolded part to be unambiguous.

A wireless smartgun connection provides an assortment of bonuses, but this table only provides the bonus you get while using it to attack. When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses of the "Take Aim" action with each action of aiming.

Otherwise it could be read like the official translators did.

Thanks for your time and stop smashing your desks with your heads, I can hear it.

That addition would only be necessary if the first part of the sentence didn't already exist. The fact that the line says " When aiming (using the Take Aim action)" is enough to specify that you get both bonuses of the Take Aim action. That sentence is not ambiguous as far as I'm concerned, because we are only talking about the Take Aim action with a wireless smartgun, so the normal wireless bonus does not matter.

Can you post what the German book reads like (in German), please? I'm curious now.

[Gatlack]

Sure thing:

KABELLOSE SMARTGUN
Ein Smartgunsystem mit kabellosem Smartlink verleiht eine Reihe von Boni, aber in dieser Tabelle geht es nur um den Bonus für den Angriff. Wenn ein Charakter mit einer Einfachen Handlung Zielen zielt, erhält er bei einer Smartgun auch diesen Bonus für jede Handlung Zielen hinzu.

"diesen Bonus" has to relate to the bonus in the sentence before.

[Marcus Gideon]

@Herr Brackhaus
@gradivus
@Marcus Gideon

I know you must be thinking that I'm dense. I am not.

The thought never crossed my mind. =)

As you said, translation confusion can happen. Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs. And the fact that Take Aim is on Pg 166 and that blurb about Smartlink is on Pg 178 is yet another example of how even the simplest questions require cross-referencing the book to get an answer.

Core pg 166, Take Aim

Each Take Aim action applies a +1 dice pool modifier or +1 Accuracy increase to the Attack Test.

Core pg 178, Wireless Smartgun

When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses with each action of aiming.

They're already drawing attention to Take Aim before they say "both bonuses", which means they are referring to the +1 dice OR +1 Accuracy for every action spent Aiming. Only now you get both +1's for every action spent Aiming.

Especially when you take the rest of the page in context. All of the descriptions on Pg 177-178 are referring to the Situational Modifiers chart on Pg 176. It lists bonuses for Attacker firing from cover, Attacker firing from a moving vehicle, etc.

The blurb right above Smartlink is talking about Taking Aim. And it reiterates that Take Aim gives a bonus to dice pool OR Accuracy. Then when you keep reading, Smartlink says now you get both. So they're not meant to be read as completely separate and distinct bulletpoints, the narrative is meant to flow from one to the next and continue the thought. "Here's what happens when someone with an ordinary weapon repeatedly Takes Aim. And here's what happens if you have a Smartgun instead."

[Herr Brackhaus]

Gatlack
Thanks for posting that. I'd agree that the German entry has the same problem the English one does, and that I think I see where your confusion comes from now. Let's break it down.

Both the English and German entries contain two sentences. The first talks about the wireless smartgun system in the context of Situational Modifiers, and I presume the German rulebook has a table similar to the English one as both the German and English entries refer to "this table". Now, this is extremely important, because the sentence itself provides the context by referring to "this table".

English: "but this table only provides the bonus you get while using it to attack."
German: "aber in dieser Tabelle geht es nur um den Bonus für den Angriff."

That means that the +1/+2 bonus listed in the table only applies when used to attack. Why is this important? Because "Take Aim" is not an attack action. How  do we know this? Because under the core rules, you can only take one attack action per phase, but you can take multiple Take Aim actions in a phase.

So, if the +1/+2 bonus from the table only applies when making an attack action (Fire Weapon, essentially), what does the second sentence refer to?

English: When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system
German: Wenn ein Charakter mit einer Einfachen Handlung Zielen zielt

These both refer only to the Take Aim action (or literally translated, "when a character (takes) a simple action (to) aim"), and as such separates the previous sentence (which refers to the table bonuses) from the Take Aim action.

Anyway; I think we can all agree that these sentences could both be improved to be more clear, but I don't really think you'll be able to convince any GMs that you should get the +1/+2 dice pool bonus for having a wireless smartgun apply whenever you use the Take Aim action on the basis of vague, but not wholly incomprehensible, grammar. If you still think that's the case, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Marcus]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

[Marcus Gideon]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

[Herr Brackhaus]

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

Hyperbole much? While I agree that the rules could be more concise, that's taking it a little too far.

[Marcus]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

Of course I'm not saying your wrong on the many issues. I'm simply saying decorum sir, decorum! lol

[bangbangtequila]

Of course I'm not saying your wrong on the many issues. I'm simply saying decorum sir, decorum! lol

Ahhh, the voice of moderation. It is so often seen, but the internet so rarely hears. A totally worthless +1 to you, sir.

[Pap Renvela]

Not to mention the writers are horrible at their jobs.

Very Harsh Mr.Gideon. 

Have you read these books? Of course you have =)

There is not a single aspect of Shadowrun that doesn't require some degree of cross referencing or interpretation to understand. None of these rules are every clear or concise, and once you start adding in supplements, many of them become contradictory.

The rounding rule CRB pg48 is rather clear and concise. As a second example, I can't think of any.