[KraakenDazs]

Afternoon gents,

I'm thinking of starting up a new SR campaign. Always loved the universe, ime DMed quite a bit of it, mostly SR2 and SR4, and an SR5 attempt in the early days that proved horribly frustrating rules-wise.

What are everyone's current thoughts? This time around, i'm almost considering returning to SR4, and instead homebrewing-in Decks (because decks. are. awesome) instead of trying to ''fix'' those harrassing SR 5 issues. (Errattas, indexes..)

What's the current SR 5 status. I know official errattas are making themselves scarce, and i'd love to support SR5 if i could get the frustration to a manageable level.

1- What are the current aids i might be able to find around here? Hotfixes, patches, erratas, have any been combined efficiently? I know for a while Michael Chandra (i think) had a signature link to a bunch of small fixes. For those who're playing SR5 more dilligently than i am..do they work? Are they enough?

2-Any other similar assistance tool i might be able to find somewhere? a Chummer for 5th? I know some digging around here would uncover marvels, but i am hoping there's a master-list somewhere, or maybe we can try to build one through this post to encourage it.

3-What's currently missing? I know rigger 5 came out, im hearing much praise. I'll likely buy it and encourage Catalyst for a good product. But if a lot of other things are still broken, it's hardly worth it. So, what are the current deal-breakers? The overpowered-makes-no-sense-we-*need*-an-erratta-problems.

Appreciating any help!

[Dinendae]

Technomancers are a joke right now; they have one viable build right now, and even then a decer is still better for the matrix. They are working on a technomancer supplement, but until that comes out any player you have that wants to play one should wait. As for rules and errata, it's been a long time since we've had errata, and there are a lot of things that desperately need it. Check out the errata threads, in the errata section  of the forums, for a more in-depth veiw of that.

[Lorebane24]

I prefer SR5 to SR4 for what I consider to be tighter, less abusable matrix rules and the additions of Limits, which make it more difficult, if only by a little, for a savvy player to absolutely shatter the system.

If you want to make Technomancers a little beefier, these are the house rules I am about to start testing, copied and pasted from my house rules documents.

A technomancer's matrix attributes are not derived from their mental attributes.  Instead, a newly created technomancer gets a number of points to distribute among these attributes equal to their Resonance x3 +3.  No attribute can ever be higher than their mental limit.  This limit is ignored by the attribute-enhancing submersion abilities.  Whenever their Resonance attribute increases, they gain 3 more points to distribute.
   A technomancer is capable of learning special complex forms that essentially duplicate the effects of programs, but they cannot utilize as many as a decker.  They can learn a maximum number of these programs equal to half their Resonance (rounded up), and cannot learn any of the attribute-enhancing programs or the configurator program.  These programs require no check to run, and do not need to be sustained.  Note that these programs are generally not as powerful as actual complex forms, so learning them is a less efficient use of resources for the technomancer, but sometimes a specific program may be crucial to a build or playstyle, and this allows a player to acquire that program without having to go through submersion.
   As with magicians and spirits, technomancers must learn to compile each type of sprite individual, using up one of their Complex Form slots at character creation, or spending a like amount of karma.
   Finally, the skinlink echo is part of the technomancer's default kit.  Any technomancer, without having to submerge, can create a direct link with an electronic object by touching it with their fingertips or the palms of their hands.

[Mirikon]

TMs got thrown in a cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube this edition. There's just no other way to say it. They went from being the 'Swiss Army knives of the Matrix', versatile characters who could be situationally more powerful than a decker or rigger (but at a price) with the balance that they were generally not much help in the real world, while hackers and riggers were less versatile, but more powerful overall and had greater endurance and reliability. TMs were tactical masters, while deckers and riggers were strategic masters.

In 5E, that's all gone. Not only did the rigging part of TMs get ripped out and drekked on to the point where you have to get enough karma to submerge to even think about rigging, but when talking about hacking TMs are less versatile, and far less powerful, than hackers. And they still are fairly useless in the real world. Even worse, they can't be part of a PAN, so they can't even secure their OWN gear, much less the rest of the party's! Basically, if a player wants to be a TM, hand them a gimp mask and a leather collar to put on first.

Otherwise, the recent books and supplements have risen conditions to 'ok'. 5E is heavy on the 2e/3e nostalgia, and different archetypes are effectively classes that you can't really avoid building into because of abhorently expensive gear/ware and the priority system. It does make chargen quicker, but at the expense of 'streamlining' (read: stripping out almost all chances for customization). They've butchered the hell out of weapon mods, as well.

[KraakenDazs]

Damn, liked those weapons mods. i guess those might still be houserule-able but that saddens me a bit, i always try to keep houseruling to a minimum.

How about the usability of the rules? Are there any still "Broken" rules that are game-breakers (Like light-speed cars, or grenade modifiers for trying to dodge a grenade but no rule from it-- i remember that one being fixed, but using it as an example.).

Have there been any player-made table of contents for those 2-3 core books that were good but suffered from such god-awful editing?

[Cash]

Uh...it takes a bit of a karma sink, but Technomancers are fraggin' broken if you know how to play them. They are just fine. And so far SR5 is hands down the best and tightest edition of Shadowrun rules wise yet.

[Mirikon]

Cash, when it takes 2-3 levels of submersion on top of other things to make them just fine, you've lost the plot. You're talking around 30 karma, which is at least 5-6 runs that they aren't doing anything but trying to catch up to a decker or rigger.

[FST_Gemstar]

Mirikon -

Not arguing. I will posit another question though:What do deckers get for 30 karma after character creation? Most deckers leave character generation pretty solid in their skills. Maybe they can raise an attribute, Pick up some more specializations, maybe convert karma to nuyen if that's part of their game to get some more 'ware. Anything else that makes them better deckers? They aren't buying new decks anytime soon 30 karma in.

While there are certainly lots of things broken and unfinished about technomancers, I think some of the potential fun of technomancers is their growth potential. It is a mechanically forced growth, but technomancer development can have a fun arc. Unlike other archetypes in Shadowrun where optimized characters "grow" very slowly after character generation, technomancers growth rate is faster and can be dramatic. 

Hopefully the supplement will make technomancers feel more viable and fleshed out.

[KraakenDazs]

IS there a techno supplement in the works/soon to be released?

Anything else "Big"  coming up, or we're pretty much at the end of the road, "Core-wise" (Run Faster, Street Grimoire, Rigger 5, Chrome Flesh, Data Trails...) ?

I apologize, im guessing most of the info is out there, probably not too far on these boards too, and usually im not taken aback by doing some legwork myself, but i feel every book has 20 pages of opinions and another 17 of erratas to skim through. and that has me a bit overwhelmed

[Medicineman]

@KraakenDazs
I'M GMing a SR2055 Round with a mix of SR4A and 5 Rules.(next Week  we'll start with the Universal Brotherhood and Queen Euphoria and by the Year 2017 we'll be playin Renraku Arcology Shutdown)
Maybe you give it a thought too ?

>>What's the current SR 5 status
I'm quite happy playing with the German material from Pegasus Games

>> IS there a techno supplement in the works/soon to be released?
there is a TM PDF in the Work but due to....let's say Internal affairs
it may take quite some time (estimatedly a Year or so) until CGL releases it

With a Sunday Morning's Dance
Medicineman

[Dinendae]

IS there a techno supplement in the works/soon to be released?

There is a technomancer supplement in the works, but due to some conflicts with scheduling with the first writer(s?) it probably will not be soon.

[Dinendae]

I will posit another question though:What do deckers get for 30 karma after character creation?

They can use that 30 karma to increase either their matrix skills, pick up specializations, and/or use that karma to help them become even more viable in meatspace, which is an area technomancers hurt in. Also with the ability to convert some of each runs karma into cash, they can afford new cyberware upgrades, get that new deck quicker, or perhaps branch out and pick up more equipment/cyberware for a secondary role (combat, rigger, etc.).

[Whiskeyjack]

5 has a better matrix system than 4 and characters don't leave chargen with basically nothing left to get to be top of their field, unlike 4th.

The writing consistency and editing quality leaves a lot to be desired though, and it seems like whoever is in charge of the line has abandoned the idea of putting out official, regular errata for the myriad of known problems.

[Mirikon]

Mirikon -

Not arguing. I will posit another question though:What do deckers get for 30 karma after character creation? Most deckers leave character generation pretty solid in their skills. Maybe they can raise an attribute, Pick up some more specializations, maybe convert karma to nuyen if that's part of their game to get some more 'ware. Anything else that makes them better deckers? They aren't buying new decks anytime soon 30 karma in.

Buying? no. Stealing? Sure. And yeah, upping their skills at that point is going to be a slow process, but while a TM has to spend everything to get on par with a 0 karma decker, a decker with 30 karma can boost his skills, boost his attributes, or get things that make him more dangerous outside of decking, making him less of a one trick pony, and able to better help the team overall. Oh, and all that time he is still able to protect his gear, and that of his team, which a TM at 300 karma still can't do.

[Cash]

Cash, when it takes 2-3 levels of submersion on top of other things to make them just fine, you've lost the plot. You're talking around 30 karma, which is at least 5-6 runs that they aren't doing anything but trying to catch up to a decker or rigger.

I'll have to disagree. Not because you're wrong, because I think it's subjective. In my experience, I tend to play in longer home games so we get plenty of karma. If it were in missions play, it may be disadvantageous to play a character that requires a higher karma investment to become palatable to your standard of play.