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New to Shadowrun: Building First Charecter

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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #15 on: <03-16-16/1234:05> »
You don't have to go to the metaplanes to initiate (though you can), and the Astral Combat skill is fairly low use, since you can just cast mana spells while on the astral (using the Spellcasting skill, which you already want maxed, so AC is basically a redundant skill imo). You do want high INT as INT is turned into REA on the astral (see p. 314) but otherwise, having Astral Combat isn't very useful unless you want to get a weapon focus (which I wouldn't recommend since you don't have the other stats useful for Astral Combat).

Basically, Astral Combat and Banishing are unfortunately narrow skills, both of which are largely obviated by having Stunbolt, good Spellcasting, and a good Power Focus. People will reference the Spirit Index from Street Grimoire as a basic reason why Banishing can sometimes be useful, but (IIRC) it's either an optional rule, or it doesn't matter until you've disrupted like 25 spirits, so either way, it's generally a non-issue, especially if you don't care much about summoning.

Looking at your sheet, I'm going to make a suggestion. INT is your drain stat from your tradition, right? You want this to be maxed, because it makes it less risky for you to take drain while casting spells. Make INT a 6, WIL a 5, drop BOD to 3, and just have STR 1. Or seriously look into having a tradition where CHA is the drain stat (Aztec is awesome but may not fit exactly what you want to do, admittedly).

Making your own foci is just a really difficult path with a lot of opportunities for unpleasant failure, it's much easier to just buy them and have your talismonger upgrade them when needed.

I think you will regret not being able to summon effectively, spirits are the huge force multiplier that mages can bring, but of course that's your call.
Playability > verisimilitude.

dluxcru

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« Reply #16 on: <03-16-16/1701:04> »
I actually did switch to Charimsa on the custom tradition: I am beginning to feel that the tradition I'm developing echos much more closely with the shamanistic traditions than the hermtic ones. The primary difference is which spirits are tied to which spell group - something that was significant with Hikari's water theme and aversion to Fire.

From what you're describing, dropping Astral Combat sounds practical. Good to know that it's more common to buy Foci than make them - I still dislike the lack of personalization in doing so, but that's mostly relevant to the flute. I'll keep that in mind and consider dropping Artifacing, and either pushing the points into summoning or alchemy. (I am giving some thought to what one of the first commenters said about Punch arrows - double damage like that might be a good tactic. Wonder if you can do the same trick with bullets?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #17 on: <03-16-16/1718:02> »
You explicitly cannot make magic bullets.

I will say - Alchemy is very limited. It is hard to make it worthwhile. Oftentimes, straight up Spellcasting suits things better.

If you've changed to a CHA tradition, you want to have CHA 8/WIL 5.
« Last Edit: <03-16-16/1720:10> by Whiskeyjack »
Playability > verisimilitude.

dluxcru

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« Reply #18 on: <03-17-16/1522:27> »
Given the following attributes, what would you suggest dropping? I'm hesitant to reduce initiative, health, or agility. so I'm figuring that leaves strength and logic as reduceable attributes, and bringing those down doesn't provide enough karma to increase Charisma/Willpower. I'm thinking that maybe I should go with what I have and raise these in game.

== Attributes ==
BOD: 5                            CHA: 6
AGI: 5                            INT: 4
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 2                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 11         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 5                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #19 on: <03-17-16/1633:24> »
Oh, I forgot you're using karma. I thought the most recent sheet was generated with priority. Sorry!

I'd probably reduce BOD to 3 honestly. Mages still don't want to get shot, and have some better ways to avoid it versus soaking it (taking Too Pretty to Hit, which makes Full Defense key off of CHA and not WIL, with CHA 8, is pretty great, as is having sustained Combat Sense or Deflection).

It seems like STR 1 would fit ok, I understand that doesn't get you to a new rank of CHA or WIL, but maybe with some pared down BOD? WIL is definitely more important than BOD for mages, simply for drain resistance, and more boxes of drain you can take before you pass out.
Playability > verisimilitude.

dluxcru

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« Reply #20 on: <03-17-16/2042:01> »
I'm sorry to say that I don't have Run & Gun (obstacle to being a new player) so I don't have access to a full-text description for that ability. If that's all it does, I can talk to my GM about using it. (I'd also like to know if there's anything special about chameleon coatings, concealable quick draw holsters, and under-barrel weapons - I have stats for some of these things from Chummer, but no details on their actual functions if they do anything special.)

I can also consider the Combat Sense or Deflection: it's something I'll have to learn in-game, though. Either that, or we can consider one of the house rules Chummer suggests, which allows for taking additional negative qualities to boost Karma. My favorite thought for additional qualities would be a serve allergy to carrots. My Karma balance is so narrow that it's tough to do anything else (unless we want to reduce the rating on my SIN? Not sure how good of an option that is. It is likely that Hikari will uncover a SIN in her past when she gets to exploring what's behind the amnesia.)

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #21 on: <03-17-16/2132:08> »
 Since you are not getting any attributes above 6 and you have no social skills, why are exactly are you wasting Karma on CHA?
Switch to human and an INT tradition- INT at 6 and WIL at 5 and worry about the other attributes after.

Consolidate your skills- it's better to be effective at 4 thins than ineffective at a dozen things.

Why exactly are you using karma generaation anyway if you're new?
Your GM should sit down with yu as this method isn't as easy to master as the Priority system in the Core Book

I wouldn't recommend Chummer until you know the system because you can't catch errors it may have.
Fore example it allowed you to attach a Panther ammo belt to an AK. Since a Panther is an autocannon, an AK wouldn't be able to fire off ammo from a belt designed to hold autocannon shells.

dluxcru

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« Reply #22 on: <03-17-16/2207:05> »
I chose an elf because I want a character who is an elf. Because elves do well with Charisma, it makes sense to use a Charisma-based tradition for drain resistance.

The GM is new to Shadowrun - or at least hasn't played since 1st or 2nd edition. So I don't expect him to be able to help me with everything on char gen -that's why I came here. Priortiy build might be easier but I don't like it as much as I do Karma gen - I can fine tune more with the second even if it's harder to learn.

I'm definitely working on the skill consolidation.

Just checking: have you read through the whole topic? Because if you'd read through the latest posts you might recognize that I've dropped the AK. While Chummer is not perfect, it sure makes things a heck of a lot easier for a new player to manage, and it does check some things: For instance, it stops you from trying to max out more than one attribute, an error a new player might make. I'd much rather be able to manage with software, and as we're planning to hold games online for now, Chummer files make for an easy way to transfer characters and maintain version control of them.

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #23 on: <03-18-16/0153:21> »
I chose an elf because I want a character who is an elf. Because elves do well with Charisma, it makes sense to use a Charisma-based tradition for drain resistance.

The GM is new to Shadowrun - or at least hasn't played since 1st or 2nd edition. So I don't expect him to be able to help me with everything on char gen -that's why I came here. Priortiy build might be easier but I don't like it as much as I do Karma gen - I can fine tune more with the second even if it's harder to learn.

I'm definitely working on the skill consolidation.

Just checking: have you read through the whole topic? Because if you'd read through the latest posts you might recognize that I've dropped the AK. While Chummer is not perfect, it sure makes things a heck of a lot easier for a new player to manage, and it does check some things: For instance, it stops you from trying to max out more than one attribute, an error a new player might make. I'd much rather be able to manage with software, and as we're planning to hold games online for now, Chummer files make for an easy way to transfer characters and maintain version control of them.

Anything I say are just suggestions- it's your character. Do as you please.

Yes, I read the whole thread.

The AK example is to note how chummer allows things that aren't rules legal and if you are new then you can miss it- like you initially did.

You forgot to point out that my fat finger spelled fore instead of for btw.


dluxcru

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« Reply #24 on: <03-18-16/0423:58> »
I don't mean to be rude, by the way - I just have my reasons for going against a couple of the suggestions you mentioned. I figured there was a chance that you had read the topic, and were providing an example.


== Info ==
Name: Hikari                      Alias: Hikari
Elf, Female                       Movement: 10/20
5'9", 150                         Composure: 11
Street Cred: 0                    Judge Intentions: 11
Notoriety: 0                      Lift/Carry: 5 (15 kg/10 kg)
Public Awareness: 0               Memory: 8
Karma: 0                          Nuyen: 1050
Age: 17                           Skin: Blue
Eyes: Blue                        Hair: Bioluminescent Blue

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4                            CHA: 7
AGI: 5                            INT: 4
REA: 4                            LOG: 2
STR: 1                            WIL: 4
EDG: 3                            MAG: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6                        Initiative:           8 + 1d6
Physical Damage Track: 10         Rigger Init:          8 + 1d6
Stun Damage Track: 10             Astral Init:          8 + 2d6
Physical: 4                       Matrix AR Init:       8 + 1d6
Mental: 4                         Matrix VR Cold Init:  4 + DP + 3d6
Social: 8                         Matrix VR Hot Init:   4 + DP + 4d6
   Glamour [+2]
Astral: 8

== Active Skills ==
Assensing                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 7
Automatics                        Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 11
Counterspelling                   Base: 0  + Karma: 4  = 4   Pool: 10
Perception                        Base: 0  + Karma: 2  = 2   Pool: 6
Sneaking                          Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 8
Spellcasting                      Base: 0  + Karma: 6  = 6   Pool: 12
Summoning                         Base: 0  + Karma: 3  = 3   Pool: 9
Swimming                          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 4

== Knowledge Skills ==
English (Read/Write)              Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 5 (7)
Magical Theory (Sorcery)          Base: 0  + Karma: 1  = 1   Pool: 3 (5)

== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Surface Loss)
Bioluminescence
Biosonar
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Driven
Electroception (Electrosense)
Focused Concentration (Rating 2)
Gills (Full)
Glamour
Impaired Attribute (STR)
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Sea)
Nocturnal
Photographic Memory
Poor Self Control (Compulsive I, Personal) (Must Battle Fire Spirits)
Records on File (MCT)
Reduced Sense (Smell)
Scent Glands
Speed Reading
Spirit Bane (Fire)
Striking Skin Pigmentation
Thermographic Vision (SURGE)
Too Pretty To Hit
Unusual Hair

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Storm of the Waters, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (11))
Analyze Magic              DV: F-3
Heal                       DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Lightning Bolt             DV: F-3
Mana Barrier               DV: F-2
Manaball                   DV: F
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Mob Mind                   DV: F+1
Powerbolt                  DV: F-3

== Lifestyles ==
Old Building (Squatter)  1 months

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit                      9
   +Electrochromic Clothing
   +Fire Resistance 3
   +Nonconductivity 3
   +Shock Frills

== Weapons ==
Grapple Gun
   Pool: 0        Accuracy: 3     DV: 7S       AP: -2    RC: 2
Steyr TMP
   +Chameleon Coating (Pistol)
   +Concealed Quick-Draw Holster
   +Gas-Vent 3 System
   +Smartgun System, External
   Pool: 11       Accuracy: 6     DV: 7P       AP: -     RC: 5
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 4        Accuracy: 4     DV: 1S       AP: -     RC: 2

== Gear ==
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Machine Pistols) x50
Certified Credstick, Silver
Fake SIN (Zayda Attores) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Steyr TMP) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Chameleon Suit) Rating 3
Goggles Rating 3
   +Flare Compensation
   +Image Link
   +Smartlink
Grapple Gun
Musical Instrument (Good)
Survival Kit
   +Fishing Pole (Cheap)
   +Fishing Lure
   +Scissors (Good)

I made some good progress here and was able to push an extra point into Charisma, rebalenced my non-surge qualties to include Too Pretty to Hit , Speed Reader & Photographic Memory, and reduced my SIN rating to allow for removing Born Rich. I pulled points from Artifacing and Astral Combat, and put them into Summoning.

My next priority is rebalencing spells - after that I will feel ready to play with this charecter. I can add one spell, and am willing to rearrange combat spells (likely either combat sense, increase reflexes or an illusion to change Hikari's appearance.), with the following proirities:
  • I want to keep Lighting Bolt
  • I want at least one Spell that has area effect
  • I want at least one Mana spell (or a spell that is somehow capable of dealing with fights on the astral plane.)
  • I don't want any fire elemental spells
Details on Manablade/Powerblade and Firewater would also be helpful.
If you're curious about HIkai's focus in spellcasting, she's mostly combat/manipulation (subfocus on psychic abilites), with some room for a few extras in the other categores to round out the deal.
« Last Edit: <03-18-16/0427:33> by dluxcru »

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #25 on: <03-18-16/0457:14> »
If you thought I was implying you were rude, sorry, I didn't mean to.

The last sentence was me poking fun at me because I come off stuffy a lot of times.

My go to area spell is Ball Lightning: I usually face multiple drones/people/critters more often than I do Spirits.

Have you thought about trying to fit in the 2k to buy a fetish and make some of the spells limited?

Having a 33% chance to go once in a turn can be problematic. You might  want to change one of your spells to Increase Reflexes.

Have you considered dropping automatics to 5 and getting Machine Pistol specialization- will increase your DP with the TMP by 1 and save you 23 Karma. If in addition you drop Swimming, that's 25 Karma to increase WIL to 5 (that's 1 more box before you go unconscious as well as 1 more DP for Drain tests).sorry was thinking attributes which are 5xLevel instead of skills which are 2xlevel so it's ot a 23 point saving


« Last Edit: <03-18-16/1749:21> by Pap Renvela »

dluxcru

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« Reply #26 on: <03-18-16/1419:58> »
What exactly is a fetish? I know it Returns they are used to summon spirits - I don't think I recall any mention of them or limited spells in the core book, so I'm needing more context on both of those.

Can you provide a couple of examples with automatics now vs. what you suggested?

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #27 on: <03-18-16/1756:37> »
Fetish is available from a talismonger. Cost 2000k.
A limited spell is linked to a fetish. You have to have the fetish to cast it- which is the drawback.
The upside is that the Drain is 2 less. So a Limited version of Lightning Bolt can be cast at F7 for Drain 2.
You are allowed to learn the same spell regularly and as limited (counts as 2 different spells) which would allow you to cast without the fetish but at normal drain if for some reason you don't have the fetish.

Specializations add +2 Dice to the Pool if the specialization is applicable. So if you take machine pistol specialization for automatics you get 2 extra dice when firing the TMP since it's a machine pistol.

drakir

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« Reply #28 on: <03-19-16/0804:43> »
The karma method often leads to worse characters. Sum2ten or ordinary priority will "translated" give you more karma.
For your character i would suggest priorities: A Magic, B Attributes, C Meta D skills and E Resources
Did most of your character for fun.
Attributes: Bod 3, Agi 4, Rea 3, Str 1, Cha 8, Int 5, Log 2, Wil 5 Edge 4 Init 8+1d6
(Same initiative/dodge as your, much better drain and a higher Edge. Body 3 gives same amount of boxes as your cha. The lower Agi I compensate with skillpoints)
Skills
10(12) Automatics 6+2 (Machine Pistols)
12(14) Spellcasting 6+2 (combat spells)
11        Summoning 5
8          Assensing 3
9          Counterspelling 3
8          Perception 3
7(9)     Sneaking 3+2 (Urban)
4          Swimming 1 (karma+mentor spirit)

Qualities: Surge Class III, Focused Concentration rating 1, Mentor Spirit (Sea), Too Pretty to Hit
(Did not fill in all the surge stuff but they are paid for) 
You can fill in your negatives (25 points) yourself.

Resources: 18000 to spend
Spells: 10 spells of your choice
Suggestions: Ice Storm, Ice Spear, Stunbolt, Combat Sense, Mind Probe, Heal, Increase Reflexes, Imp Invisibility, Levitate, Mob Mind  (The Ice spells are like lightning bolt/ball lightning except cold instead of electricity. (Maybe more fitting for your character)
Karma spending: Swimming 2, Money 6, Qualities 42

I hope this helps. Priority also makes it easier to move skillpoints and attribute points around. One thing up another down without having to recalculate the whole character.... (With the downside you cannot for example lower an attribute to get more money)
« Last Edit: <03-19-16/0838:54> by drakir »

adzling

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« Reply #29 on: <03-19-16/2050:02> »
That's. Good build excepting the focus conc 1