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A question on Dwarfs as a whole

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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #60 on: <03-26-16/1823:05> »
Yeah I'm still comfortable with my assessment.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Blue Rose

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« Reply #61 on: <03-26-16/1908:05> »
*Shrug.*

It just seems like most of the times I hear, "Please, dear God, don't let me fail this roll..." willpower is involved.  And usually spirits or paracritters.

Tarislar

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« Reply #62 on: <03-28-16/0155:58> »
What are you thinking of for X + WIL, incidentally, besides resisting some spells and powers? 2 dice isn't going to help much against a well-equipped spell caster, unless you have your own guy counter spelling.
By that same rational, 1 extra die for my Log/Cha tests isn't that much help either.
But the Extra Stun Box might be a huge help if its the one that keeps you awake.  ;)

Pap Renvela

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« Reply #63 on: <03-28-16/0627:11> »
Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.
Eh, I disagree. They're expensive for what you get, and paying a little more gets you a lot more. Going from WIL 5 to 6 isn't really worth it (and it's of relatively low value to hard cap WIL at 7 versus hard-capping, like, INT or LOG or AGI).

True.
But WIL 7 INT 5 Dwarf Mage is in my mind's eye  a pretty solid choice.
With Attributes B you can soft cap BOD and INT; Hard Cap WIL. Leaves 7 points for the other 5 stats but you really don't need any more STR since it starts at 3.
Granted the character effectively only has 26 or 30 Skill points depending whether you go E or D on Skills.

and of course, who wouldn't want to play a throwing syringe adept dwarf that splits the damage and uses narcojet to knock out his victims... couldn't help myself. Someone needs to start medicating me :)

PiXeL01

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« Reply #64 on: <03-28-16/0724:47> »
Versus Orks Dwarfs actually have an additional Special Attribute :/ I'm still angry about that one.
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freddieflatline

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« Reply #65 on: <03-28-16/1418:51> »
Luxembourg.  Sort of.

Heh, Dwarves of Luxembourg.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #66 on: <03-28-16/1421:50> »
Versus Orks Dwarfs actually have an additional Special Attribute :/ I'm still angry about that one.

Just another example of Ork-on-Dwarf hate.

Tsk.

There oughta be a law.

freddieflatline

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« Reply #67 on: <03-28-16/1433:21> »
Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.
Eh, I disagree. They're expensive for what you get, and paying a little more gets you a lot more. Going from WIL 5 to 6 isn't really worth it (and it's of relatively low value to hard cap WIL at 7 versus hard-capping, like, INT or LOG or AGI).

I do not know.  A dwarf would make a nasty mage or technomancer.  Especially if his will was pumped up to max.  You could cast or use resonance all day long without having to worry so much about the nasty side effects.

freddieflatline

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« Reply #68 on: <03-28-16/1444:37> »
Which is odd given that, reach disadvantage aside, they have good combat stats.
Eh, I disagree. They're expensive for what you get, and paying a little more gets you a lot more. Going from WIL 5 to 6 isn't really worth it (and it's of relatively low value to hard cap WIL at 7 versus hard-capping, like, INT or LOG or AGI).

I do not know.  A dwarf would make a nasty mage or technomancer.  Especially if his will was pumped up to max.  You could cast or use resonance all day long without having to worry so much about the nasty side effects.

Sorry did not see that this has been hashed out to the nth degree.

Mirikon

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« Reply #69 on: <03-28-16/1454:35> »
Versus Orks Dwarfs actually have an additional Special Attribute :/ I'm still angry about that one.

Just another example of Ork-on-Dwarf hate.

Tsk.

There oughta be a law.
There isn't, but I do know of an underground trid site where you can watch Orks and Dwarves 'resolve' that hate. You should have seen the last episode! That ork did things I never would have thought of. Who knew a chainsaw could fit there?
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freddieflatline

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« Reply #70 on: <03-28-16/1537:21> »
Versus Orks Dwarfs actually have an additional Special Attribute :/ I'm still angry about that one.

Just another example of Ork-on-Dwarf hate.

Tsk.

There oughta be a law.
There isn't, but I do know of an underground trid site where you can watch Orks and Dwarves 'resolve' that hate. You should have seen the last episode! That ork did things I never would have thought of. Who knew a chainsaw could fit there?

I do not know I liked the episode that proves the old adage "Never argue with anyone that punches at groin height!"

jim1701

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« Reply #71 on: <03-28-16/1538:57> »
Versus Orks Dwarfs actually have an additional Special Attribute :/ I'm still angry about that one.

Just another example of Ork-on-Dwarf hate.

Tsk.

There oughta be a law.
There isn't, but I do know of an underground trid site where you can watch Orks and Dwarves 'resolve' that hate. You should have seen the last episode! That ork did things I never would have thought of. Who knew a chainsaw could fit there?

Dwarves don't need no pansy chainsaws.  All they needs is an axe to make sure that Ork will be need a new Johnson.   8)

AwesomenessDog

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« Reply #72 on: <03-28-16/2242:16> »
Yeah, no.  Your assertion is invalid. 

First off, there is no arbitrary standard of 'if you look like this, you're a Dwarf.'  The traits of a Dwarf include eyes with thermographic vision, pointed ears, denser than average mass due to denser muscles and bones, a naturally more resilient immune system, a naturally stronger will and a below average height.  Being short is only the most easily noticeable trait of being a Dwarf (which is different from suffering from dwarfism).  If you do not have those (or the equivalents for the metavariants), you are not a Dwarf.  You were not born with whatever gave them their Dwarfiness.  Someone might mistake you for one, maybe.  Just because someone is short, has red hair and wears green in Tir Na nOg doesn't mean they're a leprechaun, even if they look like one. 

Being a Dwarf, being short and suffering from dwarfism are three very different things.  One is a genetic divergence from the human genome, one is just not being as tall as the average member of your race and one is a lack of growth/development due to some form of medical condition. 

There is no 'qualifying' for being a race.  You either are one, or you aren't.  You might not look exactly like one (Human-Looking does exist), but beneath that all, your genes say 'Elf, Ork or Dwarf.'  End of story.
Don't forget, white vs black isn't really a race when you get into the genetics of it. There are different races of primates, including human irl, but white/black/asian/etc. is just a phenotype. Meanwhile, in shadowrun, magic has actually changed both the DNA of and retroactively changed the phenotype of human in to elves, orcs, trolls, and even dwarves. The difference between human and dward is pronounced enough in the average member of the genepool to actually call them a different species and ergo race. However, assuming (because I'm not 100% sure if it's canon or how it works) dwarves and other metahumans are capable of cross breading, it doesn't even brake what we understand of specie; we now know that Homo Neanderthal and Sapiens (fyi, that genus then species) interbred which would mean dwarves and human can be fully separate races and still make a viable hybrid.

Does this mean someone can't make himself look dwarven and be a true human; no, and I don't doubt that they could do it to an extent that would even fool doctors and medical equipment into be able to issue a human a dwarven SIN or vice versa. While it is in the realm of possibility, these modifications cost you essence which means that, while you are becoming more of a poser, you are only becoming less human in the process. As much as your try to twist it, lore and mechanics both say that unless you were born something, you can only be superficially something else.

MijRai

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« Reply #73 on: <03-28-16/2305:10> »
The way metatypes work in Shadowrun is that if you have mixed parentage, you end up as one of your parents or as one of the other options; no hybrids.  Orks and trolls have been known to have fully Human kids (and some Goblinize later in life, but that's a different tale). 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Deadborder

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« Reply #74 on: <03-29-16/1756:43> »
You know, outside of that one archetype in the SR1 Street Samurai Catalouge, I can't say that I have ever heard of a Dwarf Street Sam. Is this a thing that people actually play and am I just blind?