[MijRai]

Movement speed can easily be altered in other ways; some Infected, for example, have a modifier to their move speed instead of a flat Agility boost (though some get that too).  It becomes a x3 and x6 instead of x2 and x4.  Given it is a mechanized suit, I could easily see the larger, pneumatic legs just giving that kind of bonus instead of more Agility. 

The problem with the 'better reactions' is that if your suit goes faster than you can handle (which giving it extra Agility would do, in my mind), you're going to hurt yourself.  Running faster isn't that hard when you have strengthened legs.  That somehow translating to making you better at acrobatics while in an exo-suit, making you better at aiming your weapons, etc?  Ludicrous. 

There is no precedent, as there is no Agility upgrade to mil-spec armor in 4th Ed/Arsenal, either.  Here's what they do have (on page 51):

Mobility Upgrade: By integrating additional servo-motors, improved joints, and similar enhancements, the armor’s mobility is increased to allow users that are not as strong and well trained to wear it without being slowed down too much. This enhancement reduces the encumbrance modifiers to Agility and Reaction due to the worn armor (see Armor and Encumbrance, p. 161, SR4A) by its rating, and also adds a dice pool modifier equal to its rating to all Running Tests.
Strength Upgrade: This upgrade adds additional servos, hydraulic pumps, and an improved internal structure to the armor that increases the character’s Strength attribute by its rating. The usual rules for the maximum augmented attribute (see Attribute Ratings, p. 68, SR4A) do not apply to this enhancement, since the increment is due to fully external mechanics and the sheer mass of the armor.

So, you can raise your Strength, and you can reduce encumbrance/add dice to Running tests.  No addition to Agility. 

When it comes down to the mechanics of the game, raising Strength is one thing, boosting Agility is another ball-game entirely.  One of them has a number of nifty (but not broken), static uses.  Combat load, melee damage, recoil compensation, for example.  Agility, most importantly, directly affects your attack dice-pools.  That is a huge thing from a mechanical viewpoint.  To raise your Agility in any other way, you are either spending plenty of karma, power-points, Essence or taking Drain from casting.  Just letting someone buy it with nuyen alone is unbalancing, as Wakshaani said earlier.   Why would anyone who isn't a disguise artist or infiltrator ever bother with getting Toner or Replacement if these suits hit the production line?  You strap in when it is about to go down, then do the mission.  And how would they stack with the current augmented maximums?  I definitely disagree with making the suits have their own Strength/Agility; at that point it isn't enhancing you, it's basically a drone/vehicle.  If you want that, go get Pilot Walker. 

[Herr Brackhaus]

Six one way half a dozen the other, MijRai. The fact that the suit mobility upgrade reduces penalties to Agility and Reaction is a boost to my mind.

[MijRai]

Reducing penalties is far from increasing the Attribute, Herr.  And 4th Edition had much stricter Encumbrance rules (not just the additional armor bits); nowadays a Strength 1, Body 1 wimp can put on a suit of Heavy Mil-Spec without issues (but putting on the helmet will penalize them, somehow).  Back then they'd have been a turtle on its back with the reductions.  It isn't nearly as important now. 

I'd definitely remove the Restrictive quality/trait from active Power Armor (provided you do in fact have power, I'd make it worse if you don't have it active), and I advocate an increase to the movement multiplier, but I wouldn't be boosting Agility. 

[Herr Brackhaus]

I definitely agree that encumbrance played a much bigger part in SR4, hence why I think in 4th edition where this was actually relevant it was actually a Big Deal (TM).

[Xexanoth]

Movement speed can easily be altered in other ways; some Infected, for example, have a modifier to their move speed instead of a flat Agility boost (though some get that too).  It becomes a x3 and x6 instead of x2 and x4.  Given it is a mechanized suit, I could easily see the larger, pneumatic legs just giving that kind of bonus instead of more Agility. 

The problem with the 'better reactions' is that if your suit goes faster than you can handle (which giving it extra Agility would do, in my mind), you're going to hurt yourself.  Running faster isn't that hard when you have strengthened legs.  That somehow translating to making you better at acrobatics while in an exo-suit, making you better at aiming your weapons, etc?  Ludicrous. 

The first part about movement speed was just as answer to running is an strenght skill. Thats why i said "speed increase" not "movement speed increase", it just doesn't move your legs faster but also your arms and pretty much most movement which would pretty easily translate to extra dice in combat,since you have an easier time aiming at the enemy.
Just like the mouse speed in a video game, higher speed allows you to aim for your enemy much faster, giving you an advantage.

The acrobatic example is actually pretty good, the main things a runner is gonna do with acrobatic is climbing/jumping/evading attack all things were a the speed your body(parts) move would be pretty helpfull(so more dice).
Even for sneak, being faster means you can stay out of sight more easily(and before anyone gets smart, not hiding in a group of people or being inconspicuous but being behind cover or out of sight to not be seen), then again with armor like that you're gonna get a malus in sneak test anyway which would cancel that out again.

The only things were the agility bonus for wearing armor/exoskelleton wouldn't fit are all thing that i wouldn't even allow if you're wearing one, which are escape artist, as no ones gonna let you wear that thing when they capture you, palming, as you can't really feel stuff through hardened armor, and locksmith, where the armor would just be in the way.

[MijRai]

Like I've already stated a couple times now, that is both thematically and mechanically unfeasible. 

Thematically:  It wouldn't move your legs appreciably faster; it'd make your legs somewhat longer and put more force behind your steps, lengthening your stride and making you faster without actually boosting your Agility.  It doesn't matter how fast a chicken hustles its skinny legs compared to your average person; the stride and power behind the person means the chicken is going to be outrun even if it does have a higher Agility. 
If it makes you move appreciably faster and you can't compensate, it isn't going to be controllable, and you're going to hurt yourself.  It doesn't make it easier to aim if you're bundled up in an exo-skeleton that over-compensates and exaggerates all of your movements; if anything, it'd be somewhat harder, only partially due to the bulk.  Unless you're not even bracing the weapon and just firing it via smartgun camera at that point, which has its own penalties (and you're still going too fast for your own good).  A mouse, moved by your hand and wrist, is far different from moving your entire body.  If you were making a drone/vehicle a rigger could control/jump into, it'd make more sense. 
As an example of what I'm thinking of, look to the MJOLNIR armor from the Halo series.  In the books, all of the initial testers put into that armor?  They died.  The armor moved too fast and too hard for the person inside, causing them to break their own limbs.  Then, when they recoiled from the pain, the armor went the other direction, breaking their limbs again.  They all ended up dying in a series of horribly augmented spasms crushing their bones and rupturing their internal organs.  While Shadowrun-era power armor probably isn't as fast, those kinds of responses are pretty much what you can expect if the armor is 'faster' than the person inside.   
On top of that, it doesn't matter how fast the suit is if the person inside can't react to the problem in time.  This starts getting into how augmentations and the suit would interact, which is a whole, different can of worms. 

Mechanically:  Flat-out raising Agility with non-'ware/magic/drugs like this is too powerful; it unbalances the game a lot.  Why would anyone ever pay Essence when they could put the suit on?  Strength?  Strength has its uses.  Agility has much more applicable ones, especially if you start doing things like strapping on Agile Defender.  It affects your chances of hitting, which is one of the most important parts of the fight.  Reaction is even worse, since you keep mentioning evasion.  A lot of people  would just toss those Attribute augmentations off the roster so they could pick up all the other things, since two of them could be acquired without Essence expenditures. 
Seriously?  A bonus to stealth for wearing Power Armor?  That doesn't even deign a response. 
In regards to how Power Armor should enhance climbing and jumping, that should be due to the enhanced Strength making it easier to jump and pull yourself up, not because you're suddenly more nimble. 
You do realize Escape Artist is also used for moving through tight spaces too, right?  I'd allow (or better yet, require) the use of Escape Artist to attempt to maneuver in areas too small for your power-armored self.
Palming isn't just about feeling things in your hands, though the actual opportunities to use palming in Power Armor are somewhat lacking. 
Why would your suddenly super-nimble suit-fingers be unable to use lockpicks?  Besides the fact that it also applies to mag-locks and other tools that don't really require tiny fingers, there's no reason why Locksmith couldn't be done; the proper tools would make it feasible. 

Increasing your movement multiplier (and allowing those hydraulic leg jacks to be installed for better jumping) is all I would do in relation to speed/movement for Power Armor.  Attribute boosts for anything besides Strength are too much. 

[Xexanoth]

For the First part: were talking about a game that features magic and a lot of completely "unrealistic" stuff, so hey maybe they found out a way to make it work.
And while Halo actually explained the whole thing, most of the time people don't even bother explaining because it's more awesome like that, and shadowrun likes the "Rule of Cool".

Mechanically:  Flat-out raising Agility with non-'ware/magic/drugs like this is too powerful; it unbalances the game a lot.  Why would anyone ever pay Essence when they could put the suit on?  Strength?  Strength has its uses.  Agility has much more applicable ones, especially if you start doing things like strapping on Agile Defender.  It affects your chances of hitting, which is one of the most important parts of the fight.  Reaction is even worse, since you keep mentioning evasion.  A lot of people  would just toss those Attribute augmentations off the roster so they could pick up all the other things, since two of them could be acquired without Essence expenditures. 

Yes, a really expensive, hard to get, prototype/military grade armor suit that will call down extreme measures on you if you get seen wearing it, is unbalanced.   
There was a whole discussion that no matter how good the suit makes you, it's completely unfeasible for a runner to have or keep.

Seriously?  A bonus to stealth for wearing Power Armor?  That doesn't even deign a response. 

it also apparently doesn't deign actually reading the whole part, as i LITERALLY said the suit would get you stealth maluses, so maybe next time read the whole part before making comments?

In regards to how Power Armor should enhance climbing and jumping, that should be due to the enhanced Strength making it easier to jump and pull yourself up, not because you're suddenly more nimble. 

Or because you can grab on faster. Pulling up is strenght, finding places to latch on and keep going is agility.
Then again, strenght plays a much bigger role here since it definces the distance.

You do realize Escape Artist is also used for moving through tight spaces too, right?  I'd allow (or better yet, require) the use of Escape Artist to attempt to maneuver in areas too small for your power-armored self.

Valid point, never used escape artist, so i didn't think about that.

Palming isn't just about feeling things in your hands, though the actual opportunities to use palming in Power Armor are somewhat lacking. 

Well it's described as sleigh of hand, and in the rulebook it's used for stuff like pickpocketing, hiding gear on your body, or finding gear on someone else. All things that are pretty much pointless if you're wearing an armored glove/exoskeleton.
(also, who doesn't just use a cyberwarescanner )

Why would your suddenly super-nimble suit-fingers be unable to use lockpicks?  Besides the fact that it also applies to mag-locks and other tools that don't really require tiny fingers, there's no reason why Locksmith couldn't be done; the proper tools would make it feasible. 

well if you have modified tools that you can use with a power armor, be my guest.
However maglocks do require "small" fingers, since you're working on the innards of an electronic device.

Increasing your movement multiplier (and allowing those hydraulic leg jacks to be installed for better jumping) is all I would do in relation to speed/movement for Power Armor.  Attribute boosts for anything besides Strength are too much.

So getting that one or two dice more, which will mainly be used to shoot stuff is bad, but getting more damage in melee is fine?
And lets face it, if you're wearing power armor, you're not gonna use alot of stuff thats not combat, maybe climbing,which gets a better boost from strenght than agility anyways.

[MijRai]

So, because magic exist, let's have teleporters?  I mean, those aren't realistic.  How about some time travel too!  And let's have aliens visit with manatech wonders of the future!  Just because a facet of the setting is fantastic, doesn't mean you should throw the realism of the 'mundane' part of the setting out.  It's still cyberpunk at the roots.

Nobody has actually put a price or availability on it, and even then people will find a way to get it.  And what about civilian loader models with less armor and aren't forbidden?  What about taking one of those and up-armoring it?  There's plenty of opportunities out there.  Saying it isn't feasible for 'runners to use/own isn't really an option yet, and I bet if rules were made, 'runners would find a way. 

Oh, I saw your 'penalty' bit.  Like I said, it didn't deign a response.  To elaborate, because you're saying the armor would have bonuses to  negate those.  Absolutely ludicrous.  How would it being faster really help with stealth?  You're still big, hulking, covered in servos and pneumatics, weighing perhaps a hundred kilos more...  I would not provide ANY bonuses to stealth, and apply more penalties if you're moving (so standing still with ruthenium polymer would be a decent tactic).  You ain't going to be quieter in one of these suits. 

So, your super-suit should have super-quick grabbing too?  And some kind of algorithm to make finding spots to grab easier? 

Hiding gear is a good bit about knowledge of palming, which is where it could come into play (hiding certain things on your person so people don't know you have them can always have some use). 

Maglocks require the tools of the trade, which doesn't always mean you need small fingers.  A sequencer or passkey doesn't need you to break into the casing. 

Those multiple dice are very powerful, yes, especially since you're shooting 'bad stuff.'  That is the most unbalanced aspect of it.  You need a smartlink implanted to get a similar bonus just for shooting, and these would apply to ALL Agility rolls.   Stealth, all weapons, gymnastics, those are some of the most used rolls in the game.  They incorporate hitting (and thus hurting) the enemy, hiding from the enemy and evading the enemy.  Those are some of the most important rolls for meat-body interactions (besides some of the Intuition-based ones).  There's also still no consensus on whether or not it would stack with your own Agility augments.  It isn't internal, so if I picked up Muscle Toner 4 and a suit that had a +4 Agility, does that mean I have a +8 to ALL Agility rolls? 
Given that melee combat is generally sub-par due to:
Having to close the gap with the enemy, giving them more chances to put bullets in you.
It takes a Complex Action to do melee attacks (except with specific builds).
The damage is generally equal to or lower than using an assault rifle, and almost always lower AP.
Yeah, I don't particularly mind allowing more Strength from other sources (given a lot of people will just use the extra weight to carry more guns and ammo anyways...).  Some melee builds will benefit from having Power Armor.  A troll in a super-suit with a claymore will be monstrous.  But it doesn't give them a better chance to hit (or the damage inherent from hitting with better degrees of success, or the benefit of more dice to spend on Called Shots) if there's no boost to Agility. 

[Xexanoth]

So, because magic exist, let's have teleporters?  I mean, those aren't realistic.  How about some time travel too!  And let's have aliens visit with manatech wonders of the future!  Just because a facet of the setting is fantastic, doesn't mean you should throw the realism of the 'mundane' part of the setting out.  It's still cyberpunk at the roots.

also means we don't have to pick one thing were it now HAS to be realistic.
(the next few line are not to be taken too seriously)
Not to mention there's actually a Spirit/Pixie power that lets you teleport between earth and your home dimension, so there's that 
And corps are teleporting teams to other dimensions to find valuables(Market Panic).
And we also have the advanced nanotech/ware by aliens now that the monads are here(Market Panic). Which are kinda alien, being AIs and all.
And spirits are technically aliens, and they help people with magic, which is a science.
Got me with time travel though. 

Nobody has actually put a price or availability on it, and even then people will find a way to get it.  And what about civilian loader models with less armor and aren't forbidden?  What about taking one of those and up-armoring it?  There's plenty of opportunities out there.  Saying it isn't feasible for 'runners to use/own isn't really an option yet, and I bet if rules were made, 'runners would find a way. 

4ed also has tanks and nuclear submarines,  don't think many people saw em in their normal games. And why would there even be civilian models, nobody talked about it so far and thats what drones are for.
(then again, according to Chrome Flesh, people are actually working on ExoWare that does just that, so what do i know)
Your whole point was that giving agility bonus to that armor would make ware essentialy unnecessary, and completely unbalance the game, which won't happen when it cost a mill and has an availibilty of 26+
Not to mention you completely ignore that you cant just always walk around in that armor. Have fun trailing someone in the sprawl with that thing on. Makes it pretty hard to be inconspicuous in a crowd.
Sure the Super Munchkin player will find a way to get it or maybe you're simply playing a military campaign, but the average shadowrun player will never get that thing unless his GM uses it in a campaign.
Heck most people don't even use the normal military armor.

Oh, I saw your 'penalty' bit.  Like I said, it didn't deign a response.  To elaborate, because you're saying the armor would have bonuses to  negate those.  Absolutely ludicrous.  How would it being faster really help with stealth?  You're still big, hulking, covered in servos and pneumatics, weighing perhaps a hundred kilos more...  I would not provide ANY bonuses to stealth, and apply more penalties if you're moving (so standing still with ruthenium polymer would be a decent tactic).  You ain't going to be quieter in one of these suits. 

As i pointed out, it's about not being seen, i can get past guards because im faster. For example: a small time window were a certain area isn't watched.(The guard turned around for a time, or the other patrol isn't there yet) Then it helps stealth. Of course if you're running around on a metal grate right next to guards, you won't even need to bother with a check. But yes speed helps with stealth.
And since you talked about Halo, Master Chief doesn't seem to have any problem being sneaky in that armor of his(at least in the first game, didn't play the others).
 

So, your super-suit should have super-quick grabbing too?  And some kind of algorithm to make finding spots to grab easier? 

The suit helps with speed, i never said anything about super grabbing, if you move faster, you can grab new ledges/spots faster, which makes climbing faster.
Thats why the difficulty of the surface is a different modifier.

Maglocks require the tools of the trade, which doesn't always mean you need small fingers.  A sequencer or passkey doesn't need you to break into the casing. 

Sequenzer and Passcrads only apply their rating, which has nothing to do with agility. So any agility bonus doesn't matter.

Those multiple dice are very powerful, yes, especially since you're shooting 'bad stuff.'  That is the most unbalanced aspect of it.  You need a smartlink implanted to get a similar bonus just for shooting, and these would apply to ALL Agility rolls.   Stealth, all weapons, gymnastics, those are some of the most used rolls in the game.  They incorporate hitting (and thus hurting) the enemy, hiding from the enemy and evading the enemy.  Those are some of the most important rolls for meat-body interactions (besides some of the Intuition-based ones).  There's also still no consensus on whether or not it would stack with your own Agility augments.  It isn't internal, so if I picked up Muscle Toner 4 and a suit that had a +4 Agility, does that mean I have a +8 to ALL Agility rolls? 
But it doesn't give them a better chance to hit (or the damage inherent from hitting with better degrees of success, or the benefit of more dice to spend on Called Shots) if there's no boost to Agility. 

The guy in the Armor will be the streetsam, if that guy doesn't manage to hit his precision limit when shooting even without the additinal +4 Agility of the Armor, he's had bad luck. Or needs to rework his build.
Even without the +4(and that if you even go so far as to use +4 agility, i was always thinking more along the line of +1/+2, and yes i didn't say it, my bad) any decent streetsam will always pull all this stuff of.
Edit: Also the Attribut Boost limit +4 still applies(unlike strenght we don't have a 4ed ruling on that one so lets just say it does)

On the other hand, even without the Agility/Strenght boost, the armor alone is so strong, that anything the GM has to throw against him is incredible lethal.(or direct combat spells, where the +4 Agi doesn't help either.)
Hardened armor basicially results in no damage or instakill.

At the end:
These armors are useless in a lot of situations because they draw ALOT of attention, and if they appear the agility bonus ultimately becomes negligable, because the deadliness of the enemies is maxed out and you either have really high dice pools even without the armor, or you die in the first hit that actually manages to penetrate the armor/turns you into chunky salsa.

The only players who would try to use these in normal play would be munchkins and well, "Never play with idiots" as they say.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Maglocks require the tools of the trade, which doesn't always mean you need small fingers.  A sequencer or passkey doesn't need you to break into the casing. 

Minor point of contention; by RAW you only need the lockpicking skill to defeat maglocks. "Common Sense" would dictate that you'd also need a lockpicking toolkit, but this isn't explicitly spelled out anywhere.

You are correct that passkeys don't require you to open the case, but incorrect regarding sequencers:

A maglock sequencer (see p. 448) may also be used instead; make an Opposed Test between the sequencer and maglock ratings. If the sequencer wins, the maglock opens. (Note that the case must still be opened for a sequencer to be applied.)

[MijRai]

Well, to start... 
The Aetherology Vanishing is somewhat stupid, in all honesty, and does not line up at all with the original Pixie Vanishing (back then it was a 'flaw' where their bodies disappear if they die, not giving them weird travel abilities).  I chalk this one up to copy-pasting, sub-par editing and an overall lack of common sense applied to sapient CC.  I mean, the half-meter tall pixies have no Lifestyle modifications or cost adjustments to gear for being smaller than even the smallest of dwarfs.  Centaurs are huge, quadrupedal horse-folk.  Sasquatch are as tall as giants and furry.  Naga have no arms.  None of these get a cost modifier for their Lifestyle?  Seriously?

Metaplanar travel is different from teleporting. 

Monads are AIs from Earth that immigrated off planet to avoid pogroms/torture by hijacking human bodies.  On top of that, it ain't no manatech. 

Manatech is a specific application/melding of science and magic (and magic is only a science to a few, specific traditions). 

A civilian model of power armor would be great to take that one cheap worker and give him the ability to be the forklift, rather than deal with the training and all.  And I still stand by the point that it would make 'ware unnecessary; why would people be paying Essence when they can streamline and update power-armor to cost less on their systems for the same benefits? 
I also couldn't countenance giving power armor some kind of massive price-tag like that either.  They can bolt an arm to your shoulder with the same kinds of technology, only smaller and without external power support.  Making it more expensive is definitely plausible, but that high?  Can't agree there.
I'm not ignoring the fact that people can't just use it constantly.  But people who know and have time to prepare will have it on hand when it is needed. 

Super-speed should not translate to being sneaky.  And Master Chief was sneaky from a distance, when out of sight.  As soon as a Covenant turned around, he'd get spotted and shot at. 

The guy in this armor will be everyone if they get crazy boosts from it for combat/survivability. 
Just because you think a build has to have an apparently extreme number of dice in order to be good or they should rebuild, maybe you should think twice before complaining about munchkins.  I've made a number of fun, functional sam builds with 12-16 dice pools in their combat skills.  That's only averaging about 4-5 hits each time.  A +4 Agility is a rather large boost in that case. 
We also haven't discussed how power armor would interact with the Augmented limits.  That's another facet that would be up for debate, and I definitely disagree with it being capped at the usual +4. 
The armor on Powered Armor doesn't have to be Hardened (or, unlike normal mil-spec armor you could receive a fraction of the armor as Hardened, thus making it less imbalancing), not to mention my previous mention of a cheaper, less effective method of using up-armored civilian models or something similar to get the job done.  On top of that, Hardened Armor doesn't mean your Soak doesn't work if it gets through; given the amount of automatic hits you get plus the dice, there's a good chance of survival. 

These armors might not be that useful in most situations (most armor isn't);  when they end up in combat though, they are invaluable.  Giving them even more extreme, game-unbalancing benefits just isn't a good idea. 

P.S.  In your opinion, only munchkins would want to use these. I disagree with you wholeheartedly there.  I have a neat idea of a character using one of these in my head currently. 

[Xexanoth]

Thats why i said it's not serious, but Metaplanar travel is still teleporting, you open up a huge portal and then go through(with you astral projection) to end up at a completely different place, not the most traditional kind of teleportation but still.

The thing about  a "Civilian" type is
a) would they be cheaper then drones or cyberlimbs? Drones in particular are pretty cheap. So why bother building an exosuit for workers.
b) they wouldn't be on the same level as MilTech, so no +4Agility. Maybe +1, and thats not overpowered if you have to pay a decent price for it.
You simply asume that for some reasons these systems are very cheap.
Sure a civilian model would be cheaper, since it lacks a lot of the qualites, but a state-of-the-art high tech power armor? And those Military power armors were what we were talking about.
Going by the prizes from the 4ed MilSpech Tech and how pretty much any SciFi mentions how expensive power armors are, it could reasonable go into the million spectrum(not necessary by much but still).

As with bolting that arm to your shoulder,
a) the arm replaces you stats, that gets kinda pricey if you start to go high.
b) the armor isn't hardened
c) it's only or 1 limb not your entire body.

And yes Master Chief was sneaky close up, there were entire sections in the first game where you could avoid combat by sneaking up on patrolling enemies and meleeing them in the back, which was an instakill.

For the Dice pools i was going by the numbers i learned in pretty much anywhere(good combat pool with all modifiers should be around 20) also add the smartlink and aim bonuses to the 16 pool and your already in the 20s, which allows you to always hit, not to mention if you using salvos, 4-5 hits are all you need to hit an enemy. Also the guy who has lower dice pools, will have a harder time surviving the kind of enemies he will face if he wears that kind of armor even with the bonuses.
And unless it's an up-armored civilian model the armor will be hardened, doesn't make sense to not give something that powerful the best armor you have.

Since this discussion is slowly devolving into arguing about rules that don't exist, heres my final take:
If there are cheap civilian version that provide huge bonuses, then yes, it's overpowered. However if those Civilian Models cap out at +1 Agility, not so much, thats 1 dice, which is nice, but nothing more.
If we are talking about state-of-the-art MilTech thats really expensive and hard to get and will make you face the really big guns? Then no, its not.(And the discussion started with those).

And those MilTech armors would be the one Munchkins try to use, but if you wanna make a cool build with the civilian models, then that's cool.

[MijRai]

I still wouldn't consider metaplanar travel to be teleporting.  Personal preference, I guess, but it's more of a shift; you're not ending up in a different region of the same place.

Mil-Spec Heavy Armor, with helmet, costs 30,000 in 4th Edition.  On top of that, you can apply the Strength Upgrade, which adds Strength that does stack with the augmented maximum and the mobility upgrade (which reduced the more potent encumbrance rules of 4th) and added dice to running.  It cost 1,500 per point of Strength added (Rating 3 Max), 2,500 for the Mobility (Rating 3 Max).  The old Mil-Spec armor (which wasn't hardened, that was a 5th Ed modification) was effectively Power Armor that had no option to raise Agility.  So while it isn't 'cheap' in the direct nuyen sense (the cost of a nice car) it is definitely not absurdly expensive.  42,000 to get a full suit of mil-spec armor with a +3 Strength and 3 extra dice to running/movement (I'd say that is enough to remove the Restrictive trait from the current armor, at least).  Takes a grand total of 9 out of 20 Capacity (and 6 of that is from the Mobility Upgrade, which high-Body builds don't need as much of).  12R for the Strength, 18R for the Mobility (less if you don't need as much of it).  So, my assessment that Power Armor wouldn't be too expensive is pretty justified, in my mind.  And it never raised Agility. 

While a civilian edition exo-suit would be a bit more expensive than drones (I'd say the 4th Edition version is probably too cheap, I'd raise it to +25,000 a point of Strength Upgrade to install it into current armors (only the full-body kinds, Mil-Spec, Security, Full Body and SWAT), cap at 4), it'd be controlled by a metahuman on site, which means you can give it to your skilled workers for when drones won't cut it.  It also has the benefit of anyone being able to use it with a little familiarization, rather than vehicle training, rigger skills or taking the limbs off of old employees to pass to the next generation.  One of these suits will last longer and probably age better than some increasingly used Muscle Replacements. 

My whole point about the limb bolted to your shoulder is that the technology is at the point where they can directly interface composites and alloys to the human brain to get full function and 'super strength' in a human arm-sized package with no practical concerns for powering it.  A suit of Power Armor doesn't need as much of the (expensive) miniaturization, and the technology obviously already exists.  The only real reason they'd be more expensive is a lack of demand; if nobody is paying for it, than people won't have the equipment for constructing it ready at all times. 

I personally think a dice-pool of 20 is extreme, at least when it comes to Shadowrun characters with less than 500 Karma.  You're hitting Professional Rating 6 combat specialist at that point, which is the ludicrously good stage.  It also means the GM would have to scale up every fight just for this one person, which threatens the entire party.  This comes down to interpretation and taste, though.

I do want to restate that Hardened Armor for people armor is apparently a 5th Edition only thing, and something I would definitely tweak (not remove, but definitely rebalance) if I ever get onto the errata I'd have to make for playing this game at my table.  This definitely changes the balance of giving Power Armor traits to these suits. 

[Reaver]

Ok, elephant in the room time!

Why? Why a civilian model?

Why invest what would be BILLIONS into research and development, then millions more on a production line, when "there's a Troll for that".

Seriously. You want extreme strength for lifting and moving? "There's a Troll for that" - and he gets paid minimum wage. (Remember, Trolls are typically twice as strong as the STRONGEST human.)

Need something to work in a dangeroys place? A drone will work there. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. And its cheap.

Cyberware, despite is use as a combat enhancements by Runners, has a more benign use. Replacement of damaged body parts. Lost an arm in an accident? Well now you can replace it with cyber (and now a cloned one.... but still), and not be disadvantaged. MS destroyed your nervous system? Replace it. Accident with a paint can? Cyber eyes to the rescue!

And even with the wide avenue of uses for cyber (beyond making Runner Murder Machines), and they are STILL as expensive as they are...... Custom Powered Armor would be several orders of magnitude more expensive...

Why? Not as many being sold, limited purchase options (not everyone can buy it), and production and research costs.

Look at it like this:
Compact car: cheap cause they are mass produced.
Bogetti Vaiyan: ultra expensive as they are made by hand, and less then 15 a year are built.

Same thing here. Limited use, limited market means extreme cost....

And as said earlier, "there's a Troll for that" for the construction/civil side of things. (And I can't see a company putting out millions to buy a suit, when they can pay a Troll 25k/year and be done with it)

[MijRai]

First off, a Troll with 7 Strength is not 'twice as strong' as a Human with 6.  It ties if by 'strongest' you mean they have Exceptional Attribute too, which puts them at 7.  Twice as strong as your average human, sure.  A peak troll only has 4 Strength more than a peak human. 

Billions?  As if.
The research and development already exists, for one.  Augmetics/Cyberware.  Drones.  Etc.  On top of that, a civilian model would most definitely be developed from a military version (which already exists), which would definitely cut down on the cost. 

Anti-trog bias is another reason.  Why hire trolls when you can have a human with this tool do it instead?  Trolls are also less common than humans, though orks are a rather common middle-ground. 

To make your troll even stronger; a larger model makes even a troll's prodigious physique even better for the job. 

Drones aren't always perfect though; perhaps there's Noise concerns, or something else.  Having a person on-site can make the difference. 

Even with 'ware being able to replace bits, doesn't mean people want to.  Though it is understated, Chrome Flesh mentions a number of people who get 'ware freak out and start trying to rip it out in a panic at some point.  Nor do you need to spend the money on 'ware for everybody who is going to work a specific job if you buy one suit for the role.  Even if someone is sick, injured, dead or gone, someone else can get in there and get the job done. 

Yes, I mentioned a good fraction of the cost would come out of a lack of demand, though the more I think on it, the more I think civilian models would probably be somewhat popular/common. 

Finally, these suits aren't going to cost millions.  The mil-spec armored version with custom fit in 4th Edition costs 16,500 for the minimum, using light mil-spec armor as the base.  Even with price adjustment for balance, it isn't going to be hundreds of thousands for a civilian model that has a number of options cut out of it (and less armor).  I'd say it'd cost close to what a warehouse forklift does, with more flexibility for other jobs.  It'd be quite useful on construction sites too.