[Rosa]

Or, all the regions where they aren't so accepting of magic end up with lower-than-average zones as well.  I am reasonably sure it'll stay around a global average of 1%; any more, and it might saturate the setting too much.

Agreed thats why it's 1% globally right now. Let me clarify, when i talk about in the future, i'm talking 100-200 years down the line where everybody and their grandparents grew up with magic being part of the world. At that point in time it would seem rather stupid to be anti-awakened. But this is of course not a future we will ever see in the game, i agree, they will keep it at the 1% globally for the forseeable future in the game.

I thought the testing was more of a guide on who to look at, I know I read something about it not being entirely reliable. I do know there's enough poor areas that wouldn't have the VR for that testing, they don't even have proper schools for Street kids and be dangerous, remote or too extensive for a mage to catch everyone. Although I do expect it happens often enough some Kids dream of a wealthy, powerful mage appearing to whisk them (and maybe family/friends) off to a life of privilege and luxury.

Indeed it's not completely reliable but some countries do it better than others.

[Thanael]

SR2 Awakenings, p.9 (in-setting Info) Magicians are fairly rare. Statistics show that about one person in a hundred has enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only about one in ten are fully capable magicians, while others are adepts or untrained individuals. Approximately 3-4 million fully capable magicians exist today,and studies show their number rising each year..

[Reaver]

SR2 Awakenings, p.9 (in-setting Info) Magicians are fairly rare. Statistics show that about one person in a hundred has enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only about one in ten are fully capable magicians, while others are adepts or untrained individuals. Approximately 3-4 million fully capable magicians exist today,and studies show their number rising each year..

Which was the late 2050s (2e time line).

So that 3-4 million figure has gone up.... not drastically, but up none the less.

Or, its been silently retconned (which can happen when you have multiple authors working on the same project over a number of years, through 3 different companies)

[HobDobson]

Come to think of it, where there's money to be made there's competition to be removed. Just as there are innumerable "new age" books in circulation here and now, the same will be true for the Sixth World. Some/most will be pure fluff, probably ensuring that many unaware awakened never quite develops the mindset needed to survive as a mage or shaman. Some will have useful little spells that do just enough to satisfy an aspected dabbler with Magic 1. And some will have one or two really cool spells (to the teenage/young adult mind) or enchantments, practically guaranteed to require a tricky amount of overcasting or draw unwanted attention. oops. Just a day's work for some of the toxics.

Awakened blood is extra tasty for some uses, and that might account for a few more "missing" active mages that the corporations and governments don't find soon enough. 

As to mentor, and other, spirits: we mostly know about the nice ones, and the not-so-nice ones that slipped up and got caught. How many have a Dagon expy whispering in their ear and cautioning them not to get caught?


Annnnnd, there you go - even more reasons to geek the mage first.

[Reaver]

Oh come on all HobDobson!

Not all mages are 'Burn you with fire! Melt your mind and steal your thoughts, crush you with my spirit, And steal your soul!' Types!







Some use acid, or cold to burn and freeze you

[Senko]

Come to think of it, where there's money to be made there's competition to be removed. Just as there are innumerable "new age" books in circulation here and now, the same will be true for the Sixth World. Some/most will be pure fluff, probably ensuring that many unaware awakened never quite develops the mindset needed to survive as a mage or shaman. Some will have useful little spells that do just enough to satisfy an aspected dabbler with Magic 1. And some will have one or two really cool spells (to the teenage/young adult mind) or enchantments, practically guaranteed to require a tricky amount of overcasting or draw unwanted attention. oops. Just a day's work for some of the toxics.

Awakened blood is extra tasty for some uses, and that might account for a few more "missing" active mages that the corporations and governments don't find soon enough. 

As to mentor, and other, spirits: we mostly know about the nice ones, and the not-so-nice ones that slipped up and got caught. How many have a Dagon expy whispering in their ear and cautioning them not to get caught?


Annnnnd, there you go - even more reasons to geek the mage first.

I now have the image of a tiny little printing press in a modly basement somewhere churing out "To find your inner totem" and "Contacting your mentor spirt" and "Communing with nature" and a dozen other titles designed to appeal to untrained new agers with a tiny bit of magic. All for the purpose of getting them possesed by members of the insect hive that's running it.

[Fizzygoo]

i'm talking 100-200 years down the line where everybody and their grandparents grew up with magic being part of the world. At that point in time it would seem rather stupid to be anti-awakened.

The zipper awakened about a hundred years ago from real-world today and the Amish, in general, are still anti-zipper.

Where's the source for the 50/50 Mage/Adept split?  That'd be a nice thing to find. 

If anyone has a book/source, I'll try to check/confirm.

[Rosa]

i'm talking 100-200 years down the line where everybody and their grandparents grew up with magic being part of the world. At that point in time it would seem rather stupid to be anti-awakened.

So, what, "only" 99,9999999999999% of the Worlds population are pro-zipper?

Naturally there will always be small, but globally ( even nationally ) insignificant Groups going against the rest of society. The point still stands though 100 years Down the line, magic and the awakened will be a normal part of society, WHO has been there for as long as anyone can remember and therefore naturally society will reflect that.

[Medicineman]

the 50/50 mAges/Adepts must be from SR2
I started playing  Shadowrun at the end of 2nd Ed and i got it memorized since the beginning
...ooO( Neo Anarchist Guide ? Sorry, I don't remember where that info is from, it's just too long ago)

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Dropship]

1% global population awakened. Is this an in-universe statistic or a meta one?

If it's in-universe then it wouldn't include SINless, most shadowrunners and likely some of the Megacorps' HTR/Black Ops awakened would it?
And given the number of SINless it would post the global pop of awakened a fair bit.

[Fizzygoo]

I don't remember where that info is from, it's just too long ago

I understand, hehe.

Here's what I've found:

Street Grimoire (1st ed), pg 9, "out-of-character" in suggestions on how to role-play a mage, "...magicians are the smallest minority of the population. One percent of the people in the world can use magic at all. Perhaps 90 percent of those are minor magicians, or never get the proper training, or go crazy trying to deal with what they are. There are maybe three to four million fully capable, trained, competent magicians in the Sixth World, though some studies suggest that the percentage is rising with each new generation." then (still pg 9), "Lots of folks will live their whole lives without ever seeing a magician close up, much less seeing one make magic. They get their ideas about magic from the trid shows and simsense chips, where magicians are either sex-idol adventure stars, comic relief, or sinister villains, all tossing off killer spells without raising a sweat. Ignorance makes people think magicians are super-powerful types who can fry an enemy in the wink of an eye." - Note that 1st edition, this was all inclusive of anyone with a Magic attribute as, pg 14, "There are also some characters who can do some magic, but only in a limited area. These are called adepts." And the section goes on to talk about Magical Adepts, Shamanic Adepts, and Physical Adepts. Nothing in the Adept section (that I saw) on their breakdown within the magic population.

Street Grimoire (2nd ed), pg 10, "out-of-character" in suggestions on how to role-play a mage, changes from 1st edition in bold or struck-through, "...magicians represent the smallest minority of the population. Only 1 percent of the people in the world can use magic at all. A fraction of that percent practice minor magicks, or never get the proper training, or go crazy trying to deal with what they are. By some accounts, there are maybe three to four million fully capable, trained, competent magicians in the Sixth World, though some studies suggest that the percentage is rising with each new generation." then (still pg 10), "Lots of folks will go their whole lives without ever seeing a magician close up, much less seeing one perform magic. What ideas they have about magic they get from the trid shows and simsense chips, where magicians are either sex-idol adventure stars, comic relief, or sinister villains, all tossing off killer spells without raising a sweat. Ignorance makes people think magicians are super-powerful types who can fry an enemy in the wink of an eye."

Awakenings: New Magic In 2057 (2nd ed), pg 9, "in-character" and "Brought to you by the American Association for the Advancement of Thaumaturgy" under "How many magicians are there?" - "Statistics show that about one person in a hundred has enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only about one in ten are fully capable magicians, while the others are adepts or untrained individuals. Approximately three to four million fully capable magicians exist today, and studies show their number is rising each year." Where on the same page it defines adepts (and hence why it was underlined) as "magically capable individuals whose abilities are limited compared to those of magicians. Adepts possess a variety of different abilities and ranges of capability." Also, under the "rising each year" entry, it says, "According to the 2055 World Census, the percentage of magically active persons in the world rose .43 percent since the previous year's survey."

I didn't see anything about population of the magically active in 3rd Edition's Magic In The Shadows.

i'm talking 100-200 years down the line where everybody and their grandparents grew up with magic being part of the world. At that point in time it would seem rather stupid to be anti-awakened.

So, what, "only" 99,9999999999999% of the Worlds population are pro-zipper?

Naturally there will always be small, but globally ( even nationally ) insignificant Groups going against the rest of society. The point still stands though 100 years Down the line, magic and the awakened will be a normal part of society, WHO has been there for as long as anyone can remember and therefore naturally society will reflect that.

Agreed, mostly. The problem I ran into is that any more-apt examples of large groups (larger than the Amish) of present day people holding ideals/beliefs that to then say seems "rather stupid" would run into breaking some forums rules.  But since I got the data posted above; If only 1 in a thousand individuals are fully capable/realized magicians, and 9 in a thousand range from capable adepts to crazy lunatics to people unaware they're magically active...then to try and predict any society's (let alone the world as a whole) attitude towards a group of people (a group of people whose abilities had been demonized for centuries long before the Awakening) over a 100 years is risky at best. In a decade or two a group or individual could whip up a real good brew of anti-awakened hatred that sweeps up the masses in its fervor and inflames a neighborhood, town, city, metroplex, arcology, corporation, or nation, or even the world to wage unending violence against anyone even remotely different from the declared "norm". Or not. The world of Shadowrun is filled with love and life and caring and sharing and fluffy bunnies and more, after all. Well...depending on your GM, I guess.

Edit: Wrong pg number for the Awakenings quotes.

[Rosa]

Agreed trying to predict which prejudices may or may not exist in 100 years is pretty close to futile, but that wasn't actually what i was trying to say either. Right now in SR you have some very anti-awakened countries and Groups. Most of those wish for a return to a human World with no awakened and often with no metahumans as well. They generally see magic as either evil based on 5th World religious belief or unnatural based on twisted Scientific and purity ideals. Most of these Groups if not all of them can readily recruit people because they have either themselves grown up in the 5th World or they have heard from their parents or their grandparents how fantastic the World was back then when you didn't have all the weirdos running around, as a matter of fact most people in SR still think of magic and all that follows as weird and alien because they have grown up with stories of how the World was before it turned upside Down and batshit crazy.

A 100 years Down the line noone living will remember the 5th World and the awakened is simply just a part of life, does that mean that you all of a sudden love them, of course not, you will still have your bigots and haters, but their hate and bigotry will based in other Things than "they are weird, i wanna go back to my safe golden age 5th World". Maybe they will hate the awakened because they are envious, maybe they live in magocracies and are part of the downtrodden, but either way they will still see the awakened as a normal and integral part of the World.

In a way it's a bit like the internet today, i see everyday that people under a certain age simply cannot conceive of a World without the internet. Likewise i often see as well that Things like Nazism and Communism has lost their scare values and Again younger people can't really conceive of them being a big issue today, why? Because they have no living link to the World back when those ideologies were considered the big enemy, it's sometimes baffling for me personally because i very much grew up with those living links, so many times there's simply an understanding gap, where those "dangers" are understood in very different ways.

Thats my point, in 2178, the awakened are simply just a fact of life and it would seem rather silly to try to imagine a World without them for most people at least, especially because at that point in time they will likely have an even better understanding of the mana cycles and that the 6th World is still only in its infancy.

But it seems like btw that the books you quoted from 1st and 2nd ed. made my point for me, the 1% is NOT a static number, the numbers of awakened is climbing globally, and its very feasible that the more society come to accept the awakening and the awakened the more of them will be caught by testing and trained to some degree at least.

Good point about the sinless btw Dopship, i guess we have no clue if the 1% is with or without the sinless, my guess would be that it is without them.

Back in 4th ed. btw there were several positive qualities that you could get that sort of represented the big number of awakened without much magic, qualities like "Astral perception", "Knack" and "Latent awakening" i dont recall seeing them in 5th ed. though.

Btw i have a question: How do you Guys see the explanation of why some people are awakened and some are not? What are your pet theories? Because the way i read the books of 5th ed. the genetic explanation has basically been more or less been disproved or at least has failed to produce any evidence whatsoever despite decades of research.

[Reaver]

The "magic gene" is still the most common accepted theory....

But the problem is in the magic/tech divide. Every system we have to map the genetic code is a highly technological one..... which destroys the magical genetic markers.... (or so the theory goes).

Look at it this way. Without using molecules, or mircoscopes, or electronic tech of ANY kind, prove that oxygen exists     Pretty darn hard huh? Same thing, in reverse.

[MijRai]

Which is why all attempts to clone Awakened people or what people think are the Awakened genes have failed to produce Awakened subjects. 

[Wakshaani]

For the record, there are six (and a half) types of Adept.

1) The Physical Adept, whose category has been expanded to include Social Adepts and others... the key is that all of their magic is internalized, making themselves better, with a few small abilities to go further (such as elemental punching)

2) The Sorcery Adept. They cast spells.

3) The Conjuration Adept. They summon spirits.

4) The Shamanic Adept. They can both cast spells and summon spirits, but only of their Totem's domains.

5) The Astral Adept. They can astrally project.
5 1/2) The Lesser Astral Adept. They can perceive astrally. (Note: These might just be a subset of physical adept)

6) The Alchemist. They do alchemy, Fetishes, and so on.

I'm curious how many of y'all have played one as a PC? I'm certain that the GMs have used several, but, beyond the physad, it's been my experience that the rest are virtually unknown. Anyone have stories of, say, their Shamanic Adept in action? Or have stories of playing a Summoner?