[markc]

Did I miss the info on external routers somewhere? I did see the note for them in the cyber book.
Also I did not see a capacity listed for internal router. Does this mean that you cannot add such a thing to other items but can carry them internally only? ie no adding router to coats, in backpack, on weapons, etc.

Or did I miss the info in errata somewhere?

Thanks
MDC

[Kiirnodel]

I'm assuming you're asking in reference to the Internal Router from Chrome Flesh.

So first off, yes, there is no capacity cost, so you can only get it by paying for it with Essence. The purpose of the internal router is to connect various pieces of 'ware together to be able to utilize their wireless bonuses without them actually broadcasting wireless. The best example I van think of is the synergy between Wired Reflexes and Reaction Enhancers.

Now, you might notice that it isn't super well defined, indicating that only works with wireless bonuses that don't explicitly require a network connection, but doesn't give a good way to determine which items qualify on that caveat specifically. It's a best judgment call, but the rule of thumb is if the bonus mentions needing to collect data from outside sources, it is probably not one that works through the router.

Now, all of that is specifically for helping route and get bonuses from your cyberware without needing to have them subscribed through your PAN. There isn't any equivalent item for non-cyber, because that is what your commlinks is for, which means it is on your PAN.

The closest you could get is a GM allowing you to get some of the similar abilities when you run a hardwire connection from your devices, but you're still probably going to have your commlinks active so it doesn't really give you a bonus or anything.

[adzling]

You can get a datajack installed (or wear trode's), connect your external wireless devices (such as smartlinked weapons et al) to the datajack via fiber optic cable, turn their wireless off.
Then you connect all that to your comlink.
This would let you get the wireless bonus for many items without exposing the item to hacking directly (only the comlink itself is hackable, which is the wired Pan's endpoint).

You can even turn off the comlink and still operate the smartlinked weapon (eject clips, fire without pulling the trigger, view the guncam footage) without any wireless signal being emitted at all.

This last scenario is the optimal one for hardcore silent penetration ops >--<

Installing the internal router let's do you much of the above with your installed cyberware that has to talk to each other and/ or the outside world.

[markc]

Thanks for the info,
I did not see that com-links counted as routers but that does make a lot of sense.

Yes int, router is from Chrome Flesh.
  1) So if I have a implanted com link then it functions as an internal router?
   2) If so why would I have an internal router for a cost of 15,000 and .7 ESS (IIRC) vs a comlink of .2 ESS and a cost of 2,000+ link cost (IIRC)?

As a network guy myself I can see a reason for a hidden network that is off the system and only synked to your gear.
I also agree that there is not a whole bunch of equipment stuff that needs a int router but the main ones I was thinking of was smartlink (no cord) and any other items that come my way in the future in which short range (non direct link) communication would be key. 

Thanks again.
MDC

[adzling]

not so fast there champ ;-)

For Cyberware your only option to go wireless is to use an Internal Router.
If you also had an implanted comlink (or a comlink in your pocket connected to the internal router via your datajack) then you could confer wireless access to all those internal devices while only exposing the comlink to wireless attack.

For EXTERNAL items that use DNI commands and/ or wireless communication you can run cables between them and the Comlink then turn wireless off and have a wired PAN with only one end point to attack (the comlink).
IF you have a datajack OR trodes and connect the wired PAN to one of them then you can also send DNI commands to the devices and receive data the same way (wired smartlink is the most common but guncams etc are also good subjects).

If you want to have a wired PAN comprising both external devices AND an implanted comlink you'd need a datajack to make that connection.

[Herr Brackhaus]

That is a lot of assumptions, adzling, most of which are not supported by current Dev interpretations of the rules (aka Aaron).

Unless there's a FAQ or something changing previous rulings, each and every piece of equipment needs to be wirelessly connected to the Matrix to receive Wireless bonuses. Running cables from a piece of gear to a commlink won't let you use the Wireless Bonus by Aaron and Bull's interpretations from the FAQ and Missions threads, respectively.

[adzling]

I understand that people make mistakes ;-)

If you can send DNI commands via datajack (or trodes)->cable->external device then it stands to reason that data can also flow both ways via a durned cable

And you can quite clearly connect an external device via datajack to your brain and send it DNI commands per RAW.

There is nothing in RAW to disavow this type of setup, and indeed all previous versions of the rules and the setting lore backs this up.

Of course you'r welcome to do what makes sense for your table.

[markc]

Thanks all,
So internal router = no exposed point of attack vs. internal com-link 1 exposed point of attack.
 Is that really worth .7 Ess, in your opinion?

MDC

[Hobbes]

Unless there's a FAQ or something changing previous rulings, each and every piece of equipment needs to be wirelessly connected to the Matrix to receive Wireless bonuses. Running cables from a piece of gear to a commlink won't let you use the Wireless Bonus by Aaron and Bull's interpretations from the FAQ and Missions threads, respectively.

+1

If you get a Wireless Bonus it can be hacked unless you have an internal router.

IMO, the Internal Router isn't worth the essence.  If you have gear you may want the wireless bonus on do as Adzling suggests and plug the silly thing in, when you need the Wireless bonus take a free action to change modes and turn on Wireless for whatever it is you're up to.  Turn it back off when you're done.  Unless it's an extended action you're never going to have a problem.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Since you're part of the Errata group you'd be better off bringing this up as an item for review instead of being snarky, adzling.

With the amount of time you spend on the forums I cannot possibly believe you've overlooked the whole wired vs wireless PAN issue, and the number of threads asking about this specific issue. Again, the FAQ comments made by Aaron and the Missions FAQ by Bull and now Sinthalix both suggest you cannot use a wired connection to obtain wireless bonuses. So again, unless you have something that clarifies this, nothing has changed since 5th Edition was released...

[adzling]

meh, there's plenty of things that are not well thought through in Srun, and this one of them imho.

a wired external device network connected to your comlink is directly analagous to a camera wired to a master device rather than wirelessly connected to it.
And this is clearly a thing even in 5e.

+ what i previously noted about DNI through a datajack to a device.

There is no reason to rule a wired pan as impossible, either from fluff or game balance.
A wired PAN with one point of entry (comlink) will hide the devices slaved to it but there is a single point of failure for an attack (the comlink).

With a wireless PAN you'd have to take down all the devices in turn to deny their wireless bonus.

So the balance/ tradeoff is there.

the alternative is the far more concerning/silly shenanigans with a pocketful of stealth tags/ rfid tags that have been masked with Wrapper.

[Herr Brackhaus]

While I agree with you, the rules do not elaborate on whether using a wireless device as an entry point for a wired PAN is valid or not. However, statements made by devs indicate that a device must be wirelessly enabled to use wireless bonuses. As such, allowing a wired PAN to access wireless bonuses is firmly in houserule territory from a RAI perspective, and in a grey area from a RAW perspective.

And the Wrapper'd RFID tag trick wasn't really addressed in Data Trails, so...

[adzling]

i think you're statement above Herr is about as accurate as is possible.

The unintended consequence of this is the pocketful of rfid/ stealth tags and wrapper.

I'll take a wired PAN (with it's inherent drawbacks that approach a built-in game balance) over the more complex/silly pocketful of wrappered chips.

[markc]

First thanks again as more info is very helpful in my case.

I think one of my problems was that I do not own the books (I borrowed them so I have them now) and I was working from my notes that I took.
   Which in the case of Internal Router were less than perfect, ie internal router is wireless and provides wireless bonuses if (edited for content so please buy book if you want to know more)

I do own the SR3 Man and Machine that I picked up for gaming in Sevastopol, Ca  as a friend was helping out a new game store back in the 90's and needed players for SR. Unfortunately life got in the way so even though I bought all of the SR3 core books from the store I only got to play once or twice.

adzling,
Good luck finding a player or two as I used to live in Marin Co until 2006. Most of the people I know have moved on and are no longer in the area other wise I would ask if they were looking for a game.

MDC

[adzling]

hey mark np our group is actually full and has been for a while.
I keep that sig so that I can refer gamers to other groups and keep a backup list for ours ;-)
gluck out there!