[DeathofVirtue]

yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of...  stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.

The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not.  Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.

You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.

You just provided a perfect example of the assume he/she is a special snowflake mentality I'm talking about, grats for proving my point.  It's like you skimread my post ignored everything I just said about NOT being a special snowflake, carefully judging how you play the character and the gametype/setting in order to be fair on the other people in the group and the gm and not kill it for them and mentally imposed the "lecture the special snowflake that there are other people mentality".  *Slowclap*.

  Further, ALMOST EVERY PC in shadowrun has their own challenges which can affect the group, it's part of the game, I find it incredibly dishonest that your ignoring that fact in order to act like the more unique characters are the only ones this happens to and that can affect the group this way when they clearly aren't.

  I also love how we jumped straight to the new player wanting to play a special infected in an existing game when I specifically already covered that some characters aren't suited for normal games and that it's important to make sure your character fit's the setting for everyones enjoyment.  Further this is true of every character type too, not just the more unique ones, so another rather dishonest/unfairly targeting/misrepresentative statement.

  It's attitudes like this

The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not.  Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.

(9 snowflakes for 1 that isn't, really?  I doubt the honesty of those figures).  That kill character choices for people lead to the if your not playing X this way your doing it wrong mentality and exclude a good chunk of the options we have due to prejudice from a bad experience or two in the past, which we all have from something.

  Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others.  Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes.  It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.

[Reaver]

You're right.

From my experience as a GM. Its more like 15 specialsnowflakes to 1 well played unique character. (And thsts 25+ years of GMing/playing. 2 to 5 games a week!)

From my experience, by and large, Special Snowflakes dominate the field when it comes the more specialized races such as meta-sapients, infected, and the others. So much so, I gave banned a few from being playable.

Now every now and then a player WILL come along and prove that he can make it work. That its not gandstanding and 'look at me' attitude. But those players are generally the exception to herd.

Generally, it boils down to the player looking at a stat block, reading some powers and going "this is cool! I want those abilities!" With out actually reading what the race is and how they are viewed in the world.

Some good examples for you on this very forum:

Naga with an assault cannon.
Pixie with a machine gun.

Now can you explain to me how a naga (with no arms!) Can use an assault cannon?  Or how a pixe can use a weapon almost 3 times its size (I have covered this in an other post in the character creation threads - with pictures!)

And don't even get me started on the infected!!!!


And do you know what many of us GMs hear from just about every player of a unique race? "Its not a special snowflake"....

Sadly experience has taught us that:

If looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..... its a duck!


My only advice is to develop a rapport and level of trust with your gaming crew first, before you show up with 'Mr. Unique' to the table. Prove that you can be trusted to not play a snowflake and they may let you try... but just showing with a Unique race pretty much gets it labeled a snowflake from the start.... just like showing up drunk at work gets you labeled an alcoholic.

[Jack_Spade]

Eh,
personal experience only, but: Special Snowflakes aren't so much a problem for me as a player (having a bit of drama because of that can be quite fun - and if worst comes to worst a botched run is easier survived by a sensible played meta human that can hide among the masses than a one in a million surge freak), but when I GM those SS-players are exceedingly difficult to integrate into any given story, unless you tailor everything around them.

Again, personal experience only: A SS played well means usually that the player does his homework, knows the rules and knows how to not get in the way of the story. Yet those players usually don't bother with special races since they actually know how to build a concept character with the more basic ingredients.

There's little more to it: Be as special as you want, but don't expect the 6th world to make exceptions for you. 

[Sipowitz]

yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of...  stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.

The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not.  Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.

You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.

You just provided a perfect example of the assume he/she is a special snowflake mentality I'm talking about, grats for proving my point.

What I gave you is gaming reality.

[Glyph]

Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others.  Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes.  It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.

Oh, I agree, but in SR5 the metavariants and other exotic types "...are presented for your perusal, your gamemaster's approval, and your eventual demise, because sticking out like a sore thumb in the shadows is just asking to be hammered.  So grab a character sheet, build yourself a freak, and enjoy the ride!"

Talk about condenscending.  Sure, little Timmy, you can make your special snowflake, just be ready to die real quick for playing the game wrong.  Needless to say, the advanced options don't come with a lot of practical advice for finding a niche in society or functioning as a runnner.

It's a shame.  I would love even some fluff on how centaurs can or can't navigate stairs, how sasquatches can use text-to-voice on thier commlinks to communicate, how nagas can slither through pipes, etc.  It's like they said "You want to play one of these things?  Fine, here!", rather than spending any thought or effort on making it a viable option.  What's the point of offering an option in the first place, if it is not really playable?

[Reaver]

Maybe they should focus on making the race options we already have easier to include into a game and fleshing out the rules for them (Pixie weapons damage codes compared to normal for example) in order to cut down on the amount of exclusionary behaviour they can draw from others.  Sure some of the classes need a bit of work, so do the attitudes of some members of the community and I don't just mean the snowflakes.  It's becoming more and more toxic for people who deviate less and less from a "generic" or common build type and it's only going to get worse if it isn't adressed, the sooner the better.

Oh, I agree, but in SR5 the metavariants and other exotic types "...are presented for your perusal, your gamemaster's approval, and your eventual demise, because sticking out like a sore thumb in the shadows is just asking to be hammered.  So grab a character sheet, build yourself a freak, and enjoy the ride!"

Talk about condenscending.  Sure, little Timmy, you can make your special snowflake, just be ready to die real quick for playing the game wrong.  Needless to say, the advanced options don't come with a lot of practical advice for finding a niche in society or functioning as a runnner.

It's a shame.  I would love even some fluff on how centaurs can or can't navigate stairs, how sasquatches can use text-to-voice on thier commlinks to communicate, how nagas can slither through pipes, etc.  It's like they said "You want to play one of these things?  Fine, here!", rather than spending any thought or effort on making it a viable option.  What's the point of offering an option in the first place, if it is not really playable?

They provide them because people asked demanded them.  Classic case of "You got what you wished for". And no, they are not liable if they are unviable for life in the shadows, because THAT'S LIFE!

It's up to you as the special snowflake to find the way to fit in and adapt to the world, not the other way around.  And if you stand out like a sore thumb? Whose fault is that??? (Hint, YOURS!).

When you play something like a Pixie what is less then 0.001% of the World's population THEN go into a profession that only 0.00001% of the world's population is in, EXPECT to be noticed!!!

I mean really, you sound like one of those whiners on YouTube who is 500 pounds with bright orange hair and make up that was applied by a spastic monkey complaining that people are looking at you 

If you want to play the "Unique" rare races (And then take that race out of its population center!) you have to expect to stand out!!!

Hell, MY personal last visit to Mexico everyone in Rio Grande knew who I was and why I was there in 3 days! Namely because I was the only Gringo in a town of 30,000 who was driving a truck with solar panels in the back of it! (I was there to install them in Olivos De Sol, a small community outside of Rio Grande) Now did I have a right to complain when complete strangers approached me in the town, asking me to fix various electrical equipment? Not really. (At least I got free beer out of it).

Same thing here. IF you are a 22 foot tall Purple People Eater, expect to be noticed. If you are the 22 foot tall purple People Eater that shoots people in the face for money, Expect to be talked to by the police.... And even IF you are NOT the same Purple  People Eater, expect to be talked to by the police! It's called "Racial Profiling", and it happens today all the time! Why? Because it works, and it works VERY well when dealing with a Minority Race in a community. 

[Dwagonzhan]

They provide them because people asked demanded them.  Classic case of "You got what you wished for". And no, they are not liable if they are unviable for life in the shadows, because THAT'S LIFE!

It's up to you as the special snowflake to find the way to fit in and adapt to the world, not the other way around.  And if you stand out like a sore thumb? Whose fault is that??? (Hint, YOURS!).

I honestly find it real fun to try and find a way to adapt those weird characters to a world that is largely paranoid and cynical, especially of things they don't understand well.
Many of them end very badly, but those few that make it are fun to play.

[Reaver]

Oh, it can be done....

But usually requires a comprimise that the player isn't usually willing to make.

A tiger shifter that never shifts to his animal form is virturally un-noticable to the general public and will generally pass as 'human' (or whatever his meta form is) unless astrally scanned. This tiger shifter tgat stays in his human form could do all sorts of jobs and never betray his true self.

But generally, the player has this Shifter "meowing" out at the first hint of trouble.... and regardless of how the run goes, has given the Corp an idea of who or what to look for... ("Send out the Watcher spirits to look for the astral form a tiger in the city. We find that, we find our Runner! There can't be THAT many in Seattle!")

[Kiirnodel]

One of my favorite characters is a fox shifter mystic adept. She rarely shifted to her animal form and had masking to hide the fact that she wasnt human. She even faked her aura as being lower than full essence so she could claim that her tail was a bio-augment.

[GunDrake]

I am in a game group playing the new Star Wars RPG campaign. We have a force sensitive Squib character that keeps poking holes in our patrol ship with his lightsaber! We are always patching holes or knocking him out!  My bothan engineer, modder character want's to steal a Tie Phantom, but I won't steal one because the players and I do not want to take the consequences for stealing such rare prized prototype ship. Snowflakes characters are fun until they metaphorically shoot a dragon in the balls, or literally!

[Glyph]

Rarity notwithstanding, a lot of the advanced character options would work fine for a more black trenchcoat game - better than, say, a massive troll would.  Pixies are all but invisible in addition to being small and generally clever and resourceful.  A canine shapeshifter has a second way to blend in.

But player-demanded or not, the implementation of some of the game options seems kind of sullen and half-assed to me.  Sure, you need some non-optimal choices for verisimilitude in a game where characters are built with points, and not every option presented will be viable for every single GM's vision of the game world.  But I think the various character options would have benefited from more fluff (how the rare shadowrunners within a group find work and keep from being immediately tracked down, what specific problems they face, etc.) and more crunch (modified lifestyle costs, etc.).

I don't go for the exotic types myself very often, and when I do, I will have an idea how the character will function within the game world.  But they should give a bit more help to newer players, who might just see something and find it interesting, and not realize how disadvantaged some of the exotic options are.

[Novocrane]

the implementation of some of the game options seems kind of sullen and half-assed to me.

Yep.