[Shinobi Killfist]

As for Michaels comments.

Action economy. I don’t really get Marcus’s issue entirely but on my side yeah it looks borked. 1. Lack of free actions. Because of this relatively basic actions a player might ask todo become impossible as they get rule blocked by minor/major action bloat. Want to do some basic cinematic run to cover, while drawing a gun and firing off a shot. Nope can’t do it unless you are cybered or something. Combined with needing 4 minors to get a major it oddly devalues initiative dice gains. Yeah cyber dude could do that cinematic thing but it eats into his minors so he can’t attack twice. In fact unless you just stand still and fire you can’t attack twice in most cases. Sure “tactical” uses of minor actions like dodge. Woo freaking boo you spent 3 of your 6 essence so you can do a dance routine 2 more times per turn.

Armor soak. I think everyone has said the math might work out and that there were big issues with 5e in this regard. The problem is it’s thematically borked. And while a back and forth combat can be fun if you vastly out skill the enemies dragging the fight on isn’t a plus. So while one shot kills left and right because big gun x does way too much damage our team sniper who after dying came back as absurd strength swordman being An example are bad it being virtually impossible to one shot with a pistol is almost as bad.

Playtest. Maybe someone said they didn’t listen to them. But I think the ongoing complaint it the playtest group was too small which created a echo chamber. They needed a much bigger set of play testers with a diverse style of play.

Quality control that is both the dice which isnt imo on them but mainly all and I mean all of 5es history biting them in the ass. The quality control on that was epically bad.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The old Karma Pool system punishes metahumans severely as they only gained a dice per 20 good karma earned, while humans got one every 10. The sky was the limit, so a upper limit was needed. 
Yet, I still prefer that form of progression to what happened with 4Es where you could start maxed out.

Yeah I get needing to give humans something but that was a bit extreme.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

...Want to do some basic cinematic run to cover, while drawing a gun and firing off a shot. Nope can’t do it unless you are cybered or something...

I'm curious what makes you think this.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The old Karma Pool system punishes metahumans severely as they only gained a dice per 20 good karma earned, while humans got one every 10. The sky was the limit, so a upper limit was needed. 
Yet, I still prefer that form of progression to what happened with 4Es where you could start maxed out.

And with 4th and 5th it tended to get horded for a “just in case” moment since it had such a slow recharge time. Having it refresh a lot more often may help with people not leaving it sitting useless.

Granted it was fun in 3rd having 20 karma pool to just throw around at everything.

Outside of edge monsters I generally agree that is how it worked in 4/5e. And this new refreshing system actually sounds good as does generally smaller effects for edge use. From what I’ve heard I like the edge system. Just don’t think it should replace modifiers but be a add on for them as it does a completely inadequate job of reflecting the situation in the narrative.

[Shinobi Killfist]

...Want to do some basic cinematic run to cover, while drawing a gun and firing off a shot. Nope can’t do it unless you are cybered or something...

I'm curious what makes you think this.

Major action to draw a weapon reduced to minor with the right gear. Move minor action. Take cover minor action. Shoot major action. That is 3 minors+1major. Normals get 2+1. Im sure if we go through the list of free actions and how they are now minors we can come up with more examples of this. Every previous edition free actions let you move and with a quick draw being out your pistol. 2 simples got you a shot and cover or if taking cover wasn’t an action 2 shots and you just moved into cover. If I wasn’t clear I’m not talking about your move taking you past a corner where you inherently have cover but moving into cover so you can see the enemies be in position to do things next round etc.

Will yelling things to teammates be a minor action now or is speaking some unknown non action thing.

Edit to add my somewhat tongue in cheek comment earlier was how many combat turns will it take to get out of a car. Minor action to unbuckle but if it’s wirelessly engaged you get a bonus moot action to unbuckle etc.

[Marcus]

As for Michaels comments.

Action economy. I don’t really get Marcus’s issue entirely but on my side yeah it looks borked. 1. Lack of free actions. Because of this relatively basic actions a player might ask todo become impossible as they get rule blocked by minor/major action bloat. Want to do some basic cinematic run to cover, while drawing a gun and firing off a shot. Nope can’t do it unless you are cybered or something. Combined with needing 4 minors to get a major it oddly devalues initiative dice gains. Yeah cyber dude could do that cinematic thing but it eats into his minors so he can’t attack twice. In fact unless you just stand still and fire you can’t attack twice in most cases. Sure “tactical” uses of minor actions like dodge. Woo freaking boo you spent 3 of your 6 essence so you can do a dance routine 2 more times per turn.

I'm happy to go clear up any confusion on my point. I'll restate it and you can tell me where I am failing to illustrate it.
So for at-least the last two editions, your average SR combat was won or lost in the first 2 passes. That is to say, combat was very short. Or put another way PCs had a very strong action economy advantage. (IE PCs both went earlier and more often.) As described that won't be the case in 6e.

[Moonshine Fox]

The old Karma Pool system punishes metahumans severely as they only gained a dice per 20 good karma earned, while humans got one every 10. The sky was the limit, so a upper limit was needed. 
Yet, I still prefer that form of progression to what happened with 4Es where you could start maxed out.

And with 4th and 5th it tended to get horded for a “just in case” moment since it had such a slow recharge time. Having it refresh a lot more often may help with people not leaving it sitting useless.

Granted it was fun in 3rd having 20 karma pool to just throw around at everything.

Outside of edge monsters I generally agree that is how it worked in 4/5e. And this new refreshing system actually sounds good as does generally smaller effects for edge use. From what I’ve heard I like the edge system. Just don’t think it should replace modifiers but be a add on for them as it does a completely inadequate job of reflecting the situation in the narrative.

Maybe, but I’m holding my judgment. I thought the same thing about D&Ds advantage/disadvantage system replacing a lot of bonuses/penalties. Once dice hit the table though it not only reflected those bonuses well, it helped keep add-on bloat to a minimum and (for my group at least) lead to them doing tactics they had previously ignored because the bonus was so small as to be worthless.

[prophet42]

Classy armored swimsuit right here.

Nightmares for life.

Are those shock frills?

[Banshee]

Edit to add my somewhat tongue in cheek comment earlier was how many combat turns will it take to get out of a car. Minor action to unbuckle but if it’s wirelessly engaged you get a bonus moot action to unbuckle etc.

While I know you are just making a tongue in check comment in the effort of humor ... if you have a GM that enforces this level of detail (or really anything near it) then you have a much bigger problem than the action economy. The system we built the new initiative and action economy around is setup to allow you to streamline and abstract many of the things you are complaining about. just to call attention to one of actions "Take Cover" .. unless the cover is several meters away there is no need to use a move action first.

So your example of the cinematic dive for cover while drawing and firing your pistol is a simple series of Take Cover, Quick Draw and Attack .. just 1 major and 2 minor which anyone not caught flat footed can pull off without any modifications or enhancements

[Moonshine Fox]

 I always figured readying a weapon, meant that the weapon was fully stowed. Like your rifles slung across your back and secured, your side arm strapped into place, stuff like that. I figure if you’re already in a combat situation you had your weapon  locked and loaded, with ready weapon actions taken place primarily during ambushes.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

And if for whatever reason you ARE caught with having to choose between making an attack or taking cover, it isn't the disaster it is in 5e to not make an attack in the first round of combat.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The old Karma Pool system punishes metahumans severely as they only gained a dice per 20 good karma earned, while humans got one every 10. The sky was the limit, so a upper limit was needed. 
Yet, I still prefer that form of progression to what happened with 4Es where you could start maxed out.

And with 4th and 5th it tended to get horded for a “just in case” moment since it had such a slow recharge time. Having it refresh a lot more often may help with people not leaving it sitting useless.

Granted it was fun in 3rd having 20 karma pool to just throw around at everything.

Outside of edge monsters I generally agree that is how it worked in 4/5e. And this new refreshing system actually sounds good as does generally smaller effects for edge use. From what I’ve heard I like the edge system. Just don’t think it should replace modifiers but be a add on for them as it does a completely inadequate job of reflecting the situation in the narrative.

Maybe, but I’m holding my judgment. I thought the same thing about D&Ds advantage/disadvantage system replacing a lot of bonuses/penalties. Once dice hit the table though it not only reflected those bonuses well, it helped keep add-on bloat to a minimum and (for my group at least) lead to them doing tactics they had previously ignored because the bonus was so small as to be worthless.

Advantage/disadvantage is a significant penalty depends on the AC or TN to your roll but on average a +5/-5 change. 1 edge is rerolling 1 die. And it’s not even that as it may not come into play if you don’t use it to help in the defense.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Edit to add my somewhat tongue in cheek comment earlier was how many combat turns will it take to get out of a car. Minor action to unbuckle but if it’s wirelessly engaged you get a bonus moot action to unbuckle etc.

While I know you are just making a tongue in check comment in the effort of humor ... if you have a GM that enforces this level of detail (or really anything near it) then you have a much bigger problem than the action economy. The system we built the new initiative and action economy around is setup to allow you to streamline and abstract many of the things you are complaining about. just to call attention to one of actions "Take Cover" .. unless the cover is several meters away there is no need to use a move action first.

So your example of the cinematic dive for cover while drawing and firing your pistol is a simple series of Take Cover, Quick Draw and Attack .. just 1 major and 2 minor which anyone not caught flat footed can pull off without any modifications or enhancements

The rules work when you ignore the rules isn’t the selling point on the rules you might think it is.

And my example was move to as in the cover isn’t right next to you. Some GMs might say get in cover includes 1/2 your move across a room others won’t.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

1 edge could equal 1 die rerolled.

it could be 1/2 of the edge required to cancel the opposition's use of edge.

it could be 1/3 of the edge to heal a box of stun.

it could be 1/4 of the edge to heal a box of physical damage.

etc.

In aggregate, a point of edge is no small thing.

Edit to add my somewhat tongue in cheek comment earlier was how many combat turns will it take to get out of a car. Minor action to unbuckle but if it’s wirelessly engaged you get a bonus moot action to unbuckle etc.

While I know you are just making a tongue in check comment in the effort of humor ... if you have a GM that enforces this level of detail (or really anything near it) then you have a much bigger problem than the action economy. The system we built the new initiative and action economy around is setup to allow you to streamline and abstract many of the things you are complaining about. just to call attention to one of actions "Take Cover" .. unless the cover is several meters away there is no need to use a move action first.

So your example of the cinematic dive for cover while drawing and firing your pistol is a simple series of Take Cover, Quick Draw and Attack .. just 1 major and 2 minor which anyone not caught flat footed can pull off without any modifications or enhancements

The rules work when you ignore the rules isn’t the selling point on the rules you might think it is.

And my example was move to as in the cover isn’t right next to you. Some GMs might say get in cover includes 1/2 your move across a room others won’t.

Banshee didn't say to ignore the rules.  He was saying a GM is probably being a Richard to make you spend an action to move in conjunction with spending an action to take cover. 

OTOH if the cover is so far away that you do reasonably have to spend an action moving, then maybe your premise is wrong that an unaugmented, undrugged, un-magicked person should be able to do quite so many things all at once.

To reiterate your original scenario: a cinematic style diving for cover while pulling a gun and shooting it? That's 1 major and (in effect with the right gear) 2 minors. If the cover was so far away you couldn't dive into it without running first, then that's not your example now is it?

[Marcus]

1 edge could equal 1 die rerolled.

it could be 1/2 of the edge required to cancel the opposition's use of edge.

it could be 1/3 of the edge to heal a box of stun.

it could be 1/4 of the edge to heal a box of physical damage.

etc.

Well one whole die you say, or one whole box of Damage? I'll skip the sarcasm, and just get to the point. Do folks really think they can fine tune the system to a point where one die result will be at all meaningful or one box damage?  I just find that while concept to be truly bazaar. To me SR is supposed to be Gritty not Granular. Lastly spending two points to negate one point from the enemy, so we can spend 2 points to stop them from re-rolling one die? That seems like a good idea?

The most likely out come of rolling one more die in SR is just another failure (2/3 of time to be exact). If you re-rolled 3 dice, sure then that is a meaningful shot at something useful. But dropping one point strikes me as a total waste, the odds are not in your favor in the least.