[penllawen]

You want to hack the corner Stuffer Shack's host? It's profoundly unlikely they have a server rack running the host on-site. Much more likely to be run out of regional, or even global corporate hq. Or maybe even contracted out to a 3rd party matrix services farm in Singpore, Neo-Tokyo, or Albuquerque.

Strongly disagree. If nefarious Shadowrunners cut a Stuffer Shack’s comm lines - physical or wireless - you don’t want all the security to go down because it’s slaved to a remote host half a planet away. You want some stuff local, for resilience.

[Xenon]

Lately I have been going through all noise related rules in SR6

A few interesting things to note:



1 :: In this edition there are hosts within hosts.

Old school matrix node maps are back, sort of.
https://imgur.com/a/YSGlugO



2 :: In this edition hosts may be hosted by physical servers.

And if you directly connect to physical server that is hosting an inner host in a multi tier host architecture and manage to hack it then you can directly enter into the inner tier host



3 :: In this edition direct connections no longer let you ignore 'master' ratings.

Instead you might gain access directly to an inner tier host if establishing a direct connection to the physical server the inner tier host is hosted on.



4 :: In this edition there is no mentioning about zero distance to virtual hosts.

Maybe there should be? There is also no mentioning about having zero distance (nor direct connection) to devices being part of a wide area network when you are inside the host that the device belong to...



5 :: In this edition there seem to be three sources of noise

• It seem as if you are either affected by noise due to physical distance
• or noise due to local factors (such as static zones, spam zones or jamming devices)
• or noise due to obstructions (such as wireless negating wallpaper, water, foliage, or the jam signals action etc)

(depending on your reading they might or might not be be cumulative).



6 :: In this edition noise greater than device prevent device from accessing the matrix.

It also seem as if noise due to physical distance is not excluded from this rule (but maybe it should?).



7a :: In this edition there seem to be one way to limit noise:

- Satellite Link (noise due to distance limited to 5)


7b :: Three ways of reduce noise in general:

- Signal Scrubber program (or the Emulate Signal Scrubber Complex Form in case of Living Persona)
- RCC (rather than a cyberdeck/cyberjack, commlink or Living Persona)
- Resonance Channel Complex Form (only Living Personas)


7c :: And one way to fully ignore any penalty from noise:

- Signal Scream 2-Edge Matrix Action (require cyberjack)

(depending on reading this might or might not apply to Faraday's cages or when noise is greater than device rating)

[Ghost Rigger]

With device Rating 1 im in the 100 meters -1000 meters range. So i cant use p.183 Send Message (legal) No test (Minor) Outsider/User/Admin (which is basically making a phone call ) unless there is some grid, host or whatever you call it with no physical location that i can access to get that message out.

Why should we assume that making a phone call depends on the Matrix? I can a man in China right now and my internet connection would have nothing to do with it.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I think you'll be fighting the uphill battle to argue that a commcall can be made without Matrix connectivity.

Quotes like this run throughout the corpus of canon of 5e and 6we:

Everyday users access the Matrix for many tasks
in the course of their day, searching for trideos of
cats, answering phone calls, remotely turning on
their car, controlling a logging drone, or monitoring
cameras, among other things.

You're going to have to start finding some quotes that discuss making phone calls WITHOUT going through the Matrix if you're going to propose that's possible.  I think you'd also get serious push-back if you were to argue that a commlink jammed off the matrix can still make phone calls.

[CigarSmoker]

With device Rating 1 im in the 100 meters -1000 meters range. So i cant use p.183 Send Message (legal) No test (Minor) Outsider/User/Admin (which is basically making a phone call ) unless there is some grid, host or whatever you call it with no physical location that i can access to get that message out.

Why should we assume that making a phone call depends on the Matrix? I can a man in China right now and my internet connection would have nothing to do with it.

I try to make it short and not using in game quotes:

do you think its a good idea if you allow regular - and successful withing the Game - use of 1980 tech like analog radio transmitters ("WalkieTalkie"; or 90s tech like early Mobiles) -a Technomancer does "see" those waves and just can crack them like he can crack everything else ? (you can "hack" those easily with modern means, you can even negate waves by emitting contrairy waves)
Those devices were cool when Shadowrun was new, but now they dont make much sense in the setting.

Do you think its a good idea to separate todays Communication into  Internet=Matrix and imagine there are still analog Landlines connecting the globe ? i highly doubt there are many landlines connecting China to his neighbor countries even today.
You cant separate "Internet" and "Telefon" especially not when you simplify it down for a game.

But i give it up now if you dont believe me its ok 

[penllawen]

do you think its a good idea if you allow regular - and successful withing the Game - use of 1980 tech like analog radio transmitters ("WalkieTalkie"; or 90s tech like early Mobiles) -a Technomancer does "see" those waves and just can crack them like he can crack everything else ? (you can "hack" those easily with modern means, you can even negate waves by emitting contrairy waves)
Those devices were cool when Shadowrun was new, but now they dont make much sense in the setting.

But those exist? That's more or less what micro-transceivers are, as discussed in this thread already.

[penllawen]

If no-one has any noise when inside a Host, why can't I (a) slave my drones to a Host (b) log into the Host and (c) rig my drones noise-free from anywhere in the world?

[CigarSmoker]

Since nothing else is written in the rules a Micro Transceiver can withstand Noise with his Device rating. Its being used for the Matrix Action send message. translating sound waves to electric waves and back. It has no firewall or data proxessing listed. So without being slaved in a network it has 0 defense.

Might have been different in other editions but thats what the rules give you. simple and it makes Micro transceivers only good when you fight critters or magic enemies

[penllawen]

Since nothing else is written in the rules a Micro Transceiver can withstand Noise with his Device rating. Its being used for the Matrix Action send message. translating sound waves to electric waves and back. It has no firewall or data proxessing listed. So without being slaved in a network it has 0 defense.

If a micro-transceiver is a normal Matrix device, why does it have a maximum range of a kilometre? What makes it different to a commlink?

[CigarSmoker]

if you cant hack it, its magic.(or rather a supernatural device tgats neither Resonance nor Magic) I did not write the rules i can just read them.

[penllawen]

I did not write the rules i can just read them.

I can read them just fine. But when they make no sense, that's where my objections start. And I won't fall back to "this is what the rules say so that's just how it is" when they make no sense. I'd rather agitate for better rules and/or brainstorm houserules.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

If no-one has any noise when inside a Host, why can't I (a) slave my drones to a Host (b) log into the Host and (c) rig my drones noise-free from anywhere in the world?

Corps CAN do all those things.  YOU cannot, however, as there are no rules for Shadowrunners owning/operating hosts.

[penllawen]

Corps CAN do all those things.  YOU cannot, however, as there are no rules for Shadowrunners owning/operating hosts.

There are "millions" of hosts. Even Foundation hosts are common and cheap enough that the local Stuffer Shack has one, and Kill Code mentions outdated and rogue hosts that are cheaper still. Why shouldn't Shadowrunners have them? What's more cyberpunk than hidden, illicit servers?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Corps CAN do all those things.  YOU cannot, however, as there are no rules for Shadowrunners owning/operating hosts.

There are "millions" of hosts. Even Foundation hosts are common and cheap enough that the local Stuffer Shack has one, and Kill Code mentions outdated and rogue hosts that are cheaper still. Why shouldn't Shadowrunners have them? What's more cyberpunk than hidden, illicit servers?

I'm not commenting on the should's and could's... just pointing out that 6we gives no allowances for a PC to own or run a host.  All you can do with a Host is hack someone else's.

[CigarSmoker]

I did not write the rules i can just read them.

I can read them just fine. But when they make no sense, that's where my objections start. And I won't fall back to "this is what the rules say so that's just how it is" when they make no sense. I'd rather agitate for better rules and/or brainstorm houserules.

My intention was not to question your - or anyones elses - ability to read. The intention is "sigh" why are such basic rules not described in examples ... 4 extra pages in the Matrix Chapter would help a giga ton.

If you do it like this no house rules necessary:
- Group of people decides they use an anachronistic analog Walkie Talkies without any Software, a pure Hardware device "Network".

Now a Technomancer could simply take control of that network using vastly superior devices with 100+ years advantage to mimic all the anachronistic devices in the network.
So he would use "the internet of things" using microwaves, trid-vision and so on to mimic every device in the network, and with {Resonance} he disables the electronic waves originating from the network and sends his own electric waves in.

In Game terms he just hacked the Network using the normal rules for hacking. And a Hacker Decker could do just the same since the 6th Matrix is described as using {Resonance} powers as well.

That could be beautifully described in fluff that the Technomancer is surprised by the old tech and the Hacker Decker has to browse a short moment for such an old hack.