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[6e] Quality costs are all fragged up

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Banshee

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« Reply #15 on: <02-10-20/1103:46> »
Turns out that no, no it isn't really.  You can use your gear, even your commlink, without being in "AR User Mode".  Using your commlink in a manner similar to real life (holding it up to your head, looking at the screen, messaging your teammates by tapping out a message with your thumbtips, etc) doesn't rise to the level of what shadowrun calls "AR".  If you're driving your car, and you rely on the instrument panel rather than an immersive holographic Heads Up Display, that's not AR.  If you're doing a technical task and not making use of holographic technical orders floating in space, that's not AR.  Etc.
Hmm. I’d say these interactions are pretty common in Shadowrun; being out in public and referring to your physical commlink for directions or messaging must surely mark you out as either a performative Luddite hipster or desperately poor. And the third example, in particular, it might render you borderline unemployable. My headcanon is that AR is absolutely ubiquitous in and crucial to all kinds of jobs. Even manual labour on an assembly line is AR-guided.

Which could be interesting character background fodder for why someone with this quality might fall through the cracks and end up a criminal...

Absolutely... while there are end arounds that allows you to function in everyday life you will definitely stick out like a sore thumb and not be very efficient operating in common roles that's why it's a drawback afterall ... but ad SSDR points out it's not crippling
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penllawen

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« Reply #16 on: <02-10-20/1115:35> »
Absolutely... while there are end arounds that allows you to function in everyday life you will definitely stick out like a sore thumb and not be very efficient operating in common roles that's why it's a drawback afterall ... but ad SSDR points out it's not crippling
Aye, seems reasonably balanced to me. Although it's one of those slightly tricky qualities where the GM has to be on their game; putting in just enough story elements that the player feels the pain, but not so much that it becomes overwhelming or tedious. Not a bad thing, just needs the GM to keep on top of it.

For example, I routinely have the corp facilities my players sneak into have zero physical signage or mapping. It's all in AR, as a security feature, and because all the workers have AR. And if they didn't get a basic hack done on the building facilities host sub-system, they can't see the signs, and they're probably lost now. Sucks to be them.

I'm torn on whether or not more upscale neighbourhoods have any physical street signage at all, or if a sufficiently well-heeled one is un-navigatable with AR. (And in the Barrens, the opposite effect: no useful AR at all, just crude spam and cruder graffiti.)

Sorry. Bit OT. This has been on my mind lately. I'm writing another of my stupidly long docs about "everyday Matrix things" where I try to get my headcanon clear.

skalchemist

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« Reply #17 on: <02-10-20/1123:48> »
For example, I routinely have the corp facilities my players sneak into have zero physical signage or mapping. It's all in AR, as a security feature, and because all the workers have AR. And if they didn't get a basic hack done on the building facilities host sub-system, they can't see the signs, and they're probably lost now. Sucks to be them.
That is hilarious! 

I'm picturing this workplace that looks like the most soulless, sterile place, just white walls with no decorations, the carpets this drab beige, etc.  But of course, in AR, its completely different!  Beautiful fixtures, lots of tasteful color schemes, helpful signage to get you to the bathroom or the top secret lab, bulletin board for office activities, the decorations for Jane's birthday party, etc. 

God forbid you work in such a place with AR vertigo, it would be an unending misery.  It would make your typical cubical hell in today's terms look like a paradise.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #18 on: <02-10-20/1210:20> »
AR can also be weaponized/used offensively.

See the slipcover for the physical "No Future" sourcebook.  The troublemaking rioter uses AR to completely overlay an adorable, certainly harmless teddy bear ARO to conceal the lit molotov cocktail in her hand.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Trigger Lynx

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« Reply #19 on: <02-10-20/1415:18> »
Quote
I'm not saying FC isn't stupidly good.  Oh, it is.  Especially if you abuse a certain negative quality that I expected to see on this list in order to easily pay for FC3.

Speaking of, can Impaired be used on Special Attributes? It doesn't specify either way.  And if so, does Initiation/Submersion trump Impaired?

EDIT: I'll try to clarify with an example. TK the VK has Impaired 2 (Resonance) and Submersion grade 2. TK's max Resonance is 6 then, right?
« Last Edit: <02-10-20/1418:35> by Trigger Lynx »

penllawen

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« Reply #20 on: <02-10-20/1426:29> »
AR can also be weaponized/used offensively.

See the slipcover for the physical "No Future" sourcebook.  The troublemaking rioter uses AR to completely overlay an adorable, certainly harmless teddy bear ARO to conceal the lit molotov cocktail in her hand.
I know it's canon but I don't find that (or the use of AR for general personal cosmetics) as compelling/understandable. It seems to me that you're placing a lot of trust on someone else's commlink to help you out and do exactly the right thing - and that commlink is going to be running antispam countermeasures and various other user preferences that make it a poor bet that it'll co-operate with you. Plus I don't think AROs are typically photo-realistic enough, outside of special (expensive!) sculpting, for it to look convincing. And finally, it doesn't seem likely to me that most people would default to sound on for all visible AROs - it'd turn any spam, or even just normal density advertising, into a hopeless cacophony. So your cosmetic AROs might be visible to some of the people on the street as you walk past them, but couldn't make any noise, including incidental noise from eg. moving around; which would trigger some powerful uncanny valley. Meanwhile a whole bunch more people can't see them at all. Seems like it's more hassle than it's worth, overall.

Dunno, just thinking aloud.

Trigger Lynx

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« Reply #21 on: <02-10-20/1745:26> »
So your cosmetic AROs might be visible to some of the people on the street as you walk past them, but couldn't make any noise, including incidental noise from eg. moving around; which would trigger some powerful uncanny valley. Meanwhile a whole bunch more people can't see them at all. Seems like it's more hassle than it's worth, overall.

Dunno, just thinking aloud.
I can see where you're coming from. Now, I've had it in my head that as of 2070, AR is a part of every day life. From Matrix searches to street signage to grocery shopping to personal entertainment to setting up back alley meets, AR was involved in pretty much everything (which is one of the reasons I feel Scorched and the Vertigo's are just awful Qualities, cost/effect wise).  I feel the real draw to AR cosmetics and fashion was purely because it was en vogue. Using AR to improve or alter one's appearance wasn't necessarily used as a means of Disguise (per crunch), but more of a social trend. AR was the way the world worked now (then), so AR fashion was just the "hot, new thing" people did because it hadn't (more specifically, couldn't have) been done before.

Finstersang

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« Reply #22 on: <02-11-20/0912:54> »
Turns out that no, no it isn't really.  You can use your gear, even your commlink, without being in "AR User Mode".  Using your commlink in a manner similar to real life (holding it up to your head, looking at the screen, messaging your teammates by tapping out a message with your thumbtips, etc) doesn't rise to the level of what shadowrun calls "AR".  If you're driving your car, and you rely on the instrument panel rather than an immersive holographic Heads Up Display, that's not AR.  If you're doing a technical task and not making use of holographic technical orders floating in space, that's not AR.  Etc.
Hmm. I’d say these interactions are pretty common in Shadowrun; being out in public and referring to your physical commlink for directions or messaging must surely mark you out as either a performative Luddite hipster or desperately poor. And the third example, in particular, it might render you borderline unemployable. My headcanon is that AR is absolutely ubiquitous in and crucial to all kinds of jobs. Even manual labour on an assembly line is AR-guided.

Which could be interesting character background fodder for why someone with this quality might fall through the cracks and end up a criminal...

It all depends heavily on the character concept and on the campaign location.

At my current table, the setting is Berlin, so the virtual world is already a bit more... shoddy. Spam, faults, patchy connectivity and outright jamming in the alternative districts - you will be often better off without AR reliance, and you will have at least have a good explanation on why you still use your thumbs on your spiderwebbed commlink display like some caveman. Also, being in AR also means being visible and trackable. There are enough Luddites and Paranoids in the City who only turn on one of their 2D6 Burner Kommlinks when itīs absolutely needed. There are even seperate sub-grids and a whole wires-only Matrix beyond the city. So, being a little bit "old school" isnīt going to raise that many eyebrows. Maybe you will get a little quip here and there, but youīre not considered a freak. And even if you were: Itīs Berlin.

So, one of my players actually rolled a character with AR vertigo: A gunslinger Adept with a strong western theme. Old school Akimbo revolvers, dusty longcoat and (armored) Hat, and a fitting Code of Honor, since the player in question is a huge fan of the Dark Tower series. Outside of Combat, the AR Vertigo is mostly a funny quirk that offsets the character from the other, more tech-reliant characters (a Rigger and an Infiltration expert). Heīs often lagging behind and quite laconic in Matrix conversation because heīs typing so slowly, but this often leads to rather comedic "complications". And sometimes, there are actually situations where itīs beneficial to the team to have one member on the watch in the real world without any AR overlays. Since the Adept is also serving as the teamīs Astral spotter, heīs even less dependant on AR to serve his role.

In Combat situations, not using AR has certain drawbacks, but nothing that is really a total dealbreaker - especially when combined with the unique skills of the awakened. He canīt use Smartlinks, and in fact, his revolvers are 100% mechanical throwbacks without any electronics. Thatīs missing out on +2 AR and 1 dice, but he still rolls 17-18 dice and gets +2 AR thanks to Adept powers. Tactical communication is a little bit trickier as well, but good planning, Subvocal mics and handsigns are not the worst substitutes. And of course, you are a lot less prone to hacking. It offers some unique challenges, but thatīs what you get your bonus karma for.
« Last Edit: <02-11-20/0917:16> by Finstersang »

penllawen

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« Reply #23 on: <02-11-20/0938:49> »
Love that, Finstersang!

Xenon

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« Reply #24 on: <02-12-20/0157:13> »
AROs might be visible to some of the people on the street as you walk past them, but couldn't make any noise
According to the book pretty much everyone is using AR. There are only some/few people that are not using AR - the world would actually look strange if you *don't* use AR. Street signs, when it is OK to pass the street when it is OK to drive, name of the pup you are about to visit, how many spare slots the parking garage have, prices and information about products in the supermarket, if people you pass on the street are on your friends (or ignore) list, the true smell of the city would probably also not be very pleasant. Depending on the grid you are connected to you will probably also get different types and different levels of targeted ads (just like we used to/still do get in the subway or when we use free aps on our smartphones, and the big billboards down-town etc).

While this is not Shadowrun I still think it give a hint of how it might look in the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

According to SR5. regular AR (not having access to DNI) give you Video (image link, like looking at the screen of your commlink, wearing contacts or glasses or having cybereys), Sound (sound link, like the speaker in your commlink or earbuds or cyberears) and Touch (which you can get from wearing an AR glove). "Super AR" (having access to DNI,which you get from wearing trodes or installing a datajack - which in this edition pretty much everyone have... you also gain DNI by installing a commlink, cyberdeck, control rig or cyberjack) give you access to the above without using different devices plus it also give you access to Smell and Taste (without entering VR).

skalchemist

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« Reply #25 on: <02-12-20/1506:29> »
name of the pup you are about to visit...
I have no idea if this is a typo or not, but now I am picturing the future AR equivalent of "We Rate Dogs" where the name and cuteness rating of every dog you meet while moving about in the world just appears floating above their doggy heads.

https://twitter.com/dog_rates?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

penllawen

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« Reply #26 on: <02-12-20/1525:42> »
They’re all good dogs, skulchamist

Sir Ludwig

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« Reply #27 on: <02-21-20/1203:51> »
Devil Rat, I personally was impressed with the slipcover for the physical "No Future" sourcebook and have used it as an example for AR/IRL to gamers.

As for FC.  Yeah it can be used in a broke manner, but what games doesn't have it Power Gamers and they always find a way to break/abuse something.

If you have someone abusing it,  doesn't mana barriers neglect the spell? There is always a way for the GM to work around something.

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Ludwig
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Xelian

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« Reply #28 on: <02-24-20/0550:01> »
What about Impaired Attribute (you are bound to have dump stats. The point system forces you to min max). Or Analytical Mind which gives you one logic outside of limit for 3 karma :) For 11 karma you sneeze when you eat something common. For 12 karma you have to drug yourself every 6 hours :P The whole section is bonkers...

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #29 on: <02-24-20/0939:32> »
What about Impaired Attribute (you are bound to have dump stats. The point system forces you to min max). Or Analytical Mind which gives you one logic outside of limit for 3 karma :) For 11 karma you sneeze when you eat something common. For 12 karma you have to drug yourself every 6 hours :P The whole section is bonkers...

Yep that's the one I think is most broken.  For 30, 40, hell 70 bonus karma you can forfeit hypothetical maximums you don't ever plan to reach anyway?

Rather bad design imo.  It effectively just makes the game "build your character with as much starting karma as you want".
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.