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SR6 Matrix Guide and FAQ

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j2klbs

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« Reply #90 on: <10-05-20/1149:54> »
While not shadowrun, this video might still give you an idea of what augmented reality might look like:

https://vimeo.com/166807261

That was a really fun video to watch!  Thanks for sharing! :D

MercilessMing

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« Reply #91 on: <10-06-20/1259:40> »
Iconography: I get the feeling SSDR sees AR iconography and VR iconography differently and Xenon does not.  When I look at a guard with a Ruger Super Warhawk in AR, does it look like he's carrying a pistol, with a hovering ARO for ammo counter and maybe safety indicator or something, or does it look like he's holding a tomahawk? 

Banshee

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« Reply #92 on: <10-06-20/1340:49> »
Iconography: I get the feeling SSDR sees AR iconography and VR iconography differently and Xenon does not.  When I look at a guard with a Ruger Super Warhawk in AR, does it look like he's carrying a pistol, with a hovering ARO for ammo counter and maybe safety indicator or something, or does it look like he's holding a tomahawk?

Based on official artwork it could look either way.
For me personally AR never 100% masks a real object so a pistol will still look like a pistol in AR but it might have a different skin or overlay that enhances or alters it.
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Xenon

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« Reply #93 on: <10-06-20/1740:32> »
When I look at a guard with a Ruger Super Warhawk in AR, does it look like he's carrying a pistol, with a hovering ARO for ammo counter and maybe safety indicator or something, or does it look like he's holding a tomahawk?
As I see it;

When you "just glance" at the guard (without spending any action) you will probably notice that the guard carry some sort of holstered weapon (but without taking a closer look you will probably not recognize details, such as the specific type and model).

If you are interested to find out more specific details, for example what type of type and model, you would typically "spend an action" to actually study the weapon more in detail. By doing this (and taking a perception test, either physical perception or matrix perception) you might find out that it is specifically a Ruger Super Warhawk.



My point is that it doesn't really matter if we are talking about a physically looking at the guard and his holstered weapon (observe in detail with physical perception), if we are talking about virtually looking at the guard's PAN and the weapon's icon via AR (observe in detail with matrix perception) or if we are talking about virtually looking at the guard's PAN and the weapon's icon via VR (observe in detail with matrix perception). In 6th edition we would typically treat all three scenarios in a similar manner.



Also, most device icons are probably just sculpted as the real deal - and if this make it easier for you to grasp then just rule that all device icons are always represented by an icon that looks like the real deal (in fact - that would make more sense to me as well...)



I am sorry if I confused anyone with the "Roman chariot" and the "Tomahawk" examples. Only reason why I brought them up in the first place was because 5th edition (unlike 6th edition) actually explained iconography and basic matrix protocols (on a few different locations). And it also gave use some very specific examples:

SR5 p. 219 Devices
Device icons in the Matrix represent electronic devices in the real world, from your music player to your commlink to your car and beyond. By default, a device’s icon looks like the object it represents, in miniature if the real thing is larger than a person. It has controls of some kind, often the same controls it has in meat space, but not necessarily. The Ares Mobmaster riot control vehicle, for example, is famous for its unorthodox Roman chariot icon complete with reins to drive the vehicle.

Basic Matrix protocols require device icons to provide some hint of their real-life function. A firearm’s icon looks like a weapon (even if that weapon is a tomahawk, like the icon of the Super Warhawk pistol), a vehicle’s icon looks like a vehicle, a lock’s icon looks like a lock, a refrigerator looks like a cold box for food, etc. The restrictions on devices aren’t as stringent as on personas, as long as form suggests function at a glance.


So by default, in 5th edition, most icons simply looked like the real deal, but there were also some distinct exceptions (such as the Mobmaster and the Warhawk) that while still suggested function were not really miniature versions of the original object. Perhaps this is no longer valid for SR6. I honestly don't know (...but it seem to be the case as: "Icons generally follow guidelines to resemble the class of object they represent" SR6 p. 173 Icons).

...but frankly it doesn't really matter how the specific icon is sculpted. Your character still instinctively know that a weapon is a weapon (just by glancing over the physical guard or the guard's virtual PAN) and your character know that a Ruger Super Warhawk is a Ruger Super Warhawk, not a Tomahawk (at least long as your character spend an action to actually, either physically or virtually, observe it in detail).

Hell..... since the Ruger Super Redhawk seem to have such an unique sculpturing then maybe (but perhaps only if you have the correct knowledge skill or owned one yourself) you would even realize that it is specifically a Ruger Super Warhawk just by glancing over the guard's PAN (while for other devices of the same "class" you would typically have to study them more in detail to find out... perhaps just because their icons would be more generic and harder to distinguish without first observing them in detail).
« Last Edit: <10-06-20/1747:47> by Xenon »

TatyanaSaar

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« Reply #94 on: <10-09-20/1008:41> »
Just found this thread and would like to say thank you for some clarification on things.  Have shared it with my GMs.

I do have a question and a comment on things brought up by others though.

1) The document mentions that Data Spike for Mungo had a DV of 5/2, rounded to 3.  However the description of Data Spike says that DV is based off Attack Rating and not Attack attribute.  I know that this is only an example but which is correct?

2) In regards to the dice for Initiative from a Cyberjack/going Hot-sim.  I would probably rule that Matrix damage to the Cyberjack removes the bonus, on a sliding scale.  Going hot-sim would be a way to counter that loss.

3) Stainless Steel Devil Rat, mentioned that PANs cannot be entered.  However through the Mungo/Tattoo example that is done by both Mungo and Tattoo.

Anyway as I said again, thank you.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #95 on: <10-09-20/1025:50> »
Data Spike was errataed to be Attack Attribute / 2.

Data Spike
(illegal) Cracking + Logic
vs. Data Processing + Firewall (Major)
Outsider/User/Admin
You send harmful instructions to a persona or
device, causing Matrix damage to the target. Your
attack has a Damage Value equal to your [Attack
Attribute/2, rounded up], with one additional box
of damage per net hit.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Xenon

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« Reply #96 on: <10-09-20/1133:57> »
Stainless Steel Devil Rat, mentioned that PANs cannot be entered. 
Which is correct.
There is no actual Enter PAN or Exit PAN action...


Let me expand a bit on this.

When it comes to PANs you might say that you are considered connected to all devices that are part of the PAN and are allowed to take any actions on them as long as you have the correct access level on the network they are all connected to. When it comes to PANs you don't actually also need to 'Enter' the network.

When it comes to Hosts you might say that you are also considered to be connected to all devices and are allowed to take any actions on them by having the correct access level on the network, but for Hosts this is actually only true for specifically matrix facing devices (you could say that matrix facing devices are treated similar to devices that are part of a personal area network).

Having said that, to interact with devices on the inside of the Host (or to interact with inner layered Hosts in a layered onion network of hosts) you not only need the correct access level for that action, you typically also need to first actually take the 'Enter Host' action (the exception to this would be if you, typically via physical proximity, establish a 'Direct Connection'... as this let you interact with them in a similar manner as if you had first actually Entered the Host - but without actually Entering the Host).


For reference please compare my Mungo example ('just' brute forcing access on the Guard's PAN without actually entering it) with my Spike example (brute forcing access on the host but then also actually Enters the Host before he is allowed to interact with the drone located beyond the event horizon of the host / on the 'inside' of the host).
« Last Edit: <10-09-20/1138:27> by Xenon »

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #97 on: <10-09-20/1242:28> »
Stainless Steel Devil Rat, mentioned that PANs cannot be entered. 
Which is correct.
There is no actual Enter PAN or Exit PAN action...


Let me expand a bit on this
...snip...

To segue on this post: I'd like to stress/reiterate that access is not the same thing as entering.

You can gain access to PANs.  You can gain access to Hosts.  But only Hosts may be entered.   

Also: remember that some hosts are configured to allow Outsiders to execute the Enter Host action, so there isn't any direct correlation at all between having access and entering!
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

TatyanaSaar

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« Reply #98 on: <10-09-20/1304:56> »
Data Spike was errataed to be Attack Attribute / 2.

Data Spike
(illegal) Cracking + Logic
vs. Data Processing + Firewall (Major)
Outsider/User/Admin
You send harmful instructions to a persona or
device, causing Matrix damage to the target. Your
attack has a Damage Value equal to your [Attack
Attribute/2, rounded up], with one additional box
of damage per net hit.

Can you please advise which errata this was in both the ones on Catalysts resources pages, Feb 2020 and Aug 2019, do not contain this.  If I am missing an errata document that includes this, I am probably missing other changes.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #99 on: <10-09-20/1345:22> »
Can you please advise which errata this was in both the ones on Catalysts resources pages, Feb 2020 and Aug 2019, do not contain this.  If I am missing an errata document that includes this, I am probably missing other changes.
YUP.  Some changes that went into the errata'd Feb 2020 PDF edition of the CRB were NOT included in the errata file.  Why they did that I can't say.  This correction was introduced in the Feb 2020 PDF but NOT the Feb 2020 errata.

TatyanaSaar

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« Reply #100 on: <10-09-20/1408:33> »
Even more confused now, I purchased my pdf copy direct from the Catalyst store in April, and it has a lot of the Errata from the Feb 2020 already.  It still says that Data Spike is based on Attack Rating.  How do I tell which version of the PDF I have or are even ordering if I try to get it from another website?

MercilessMing

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« Reply #101 on: <10-09-20/1455:24> »
Even more confused now, I purchased my pdf copy direct from the Catalyst store in April, and it has a lot of the Errata from the Feb 2020 already.  It still says that Data Spike is based on Attack Rating.  How do I tell which version of the PDF I have or are even ordering if I try to get it from another website?
Oh wow.  Uhh.. I dunno!   I also got my copy from the catalyst store, back when it came out, and downloaded updated versions with each errata.  My copy has the corrected text for Data Spike on pg.181.  The only help I can think of is that they have bungled those updates... when I received a download link, they had a zipped and non-zipped version, and the zipped version contained the wrong version of the PDF.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #102 on: <10-09-20/1513:33> »
Even more confused now, I purchased my pdf copy direct from the Catalyst store in April, and it has a lot of the Errata from the Feb 2020 already.  It still says that Data Spike is based on Attack Rating.  How do I tell which version of the PDF I have or are even ordering if I try to get it from another website?

Check the Contents and Credits section, lower left corner of page 5.  The most recent version will say "Corrected Second Printing".  This version says Data Spike is derived from the Attack Attribute and is an Attack-linked Action.   Whereas the pre-Jan 2020 version will say "First Printing", and that version says Data Spike is derived from Attack Rating and omits the Attack-linked mechanic.  I can't guarantee that there's not a third version running around, but I'm not aware of any.

I got my copy thru Drivethrurpg, so I can't say I know 100% for sure that the Catalyst store will give you updated pdfs if you bought the original one, but I know they SAY they do!
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

dougansf

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« Reply #103 on: <10-09-20/1517:33> »
I got my copy thru Drivethrurpg, so I can't say I know 100% for sure that the Catalyst store will give you updated pdfs if you bought the original one, but I know they SAY they do!

The Catalyst Store provides the correct version as well.

As I recall, there was a significant delay between one of the errata updates and the release on DriveThru.

TatyanaSaar

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« Reply #104 on: <10-09-20/1545:51> »
I can't guarantee that there's not a third version running around, but I'm not aware of any.

I got my copy thru Drivethrurpg, so I can't say I know 100% for sure that the Catalyst store will give you updated pdfs if you bought the original one, but I know they SAY they do!

Looks like I have a third version that states, First Printing, had the Attack-linked mechanic but says Data Spike is derived from Attack Rating.  Every time I posting about this, I am checking it over and over, just to make sure I am not going crazy.

 

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