[Shadowjack]

I had a couple of requests to post my character so here it is. There are a few notes though. Firstly, I made this character to have fun, not to make the best possible "tank". I wanted to make a heavily augmented character who would excel in combat without relying on additional IP's. That  is my primary reason for being heavily focused in damage reduction. I also wanted my character to be an unconventional Face. I'm aware of the social repercussions to having so many cyber limbs but I thought it would be a unique experience so I went ahead with it anyway. I plan to upgrade my Will and Edge in the near future and I'm considering getting Heavy Weapons as well. I'm leaning towards getting a pain editor, platelet factories and trauma damper but ideas are welcome.

(Attributes in parenthesis are my averages from cyber limbs+torso where applicable)

Elf Male

Body 1(8 )
Strength 1(5)
Agility 1(9)
Reaction 4
Logic 3
Intuition 3
Will 2
Charisma 8
Edge 1
Initiative 7
Essence 1.8

Automatics(SMG's) 5(7)+9= 16 or 18 with smartlink
Negotiation 7+8+1+2 = 18 (Trustworthy+Rating 2 Tailored Pheromones)
Con 4+8 = 12
Intimidate 4+8 = 12
Leadership 4+8 = 12
Groundcraft(Wheeled) 4(6)+2 = 10
Throwing(Grenades) 3(5)+3 = 8
First Aid(Combat Wounds) 3(5) +3 = 8
Etiquette 4+8 = 12
Dodge 3+4 = 7
Palming 4+3 = 7

Cyber Torso (Alphaware) 4 armor
Cyber Legs (Alphaware) 3 armor each, 10 body each, 10 agility each
Cyber Arms (Alphaware) 1 armor each, 1 gyromount on left arm, 5 body on left, 8 agility on left, 9 body on right, 10 agility on right, 5 strength on each.
Tailored Pheromones Rating 2

Positive Qualities: Trustworthy, Double Jointed, Guts, First Impression

Negative Qualities: None

Gear

SCK Model 100 SMG - Folding stock, internal smartlink, sound supressor
SCK Model 100 SMG - Backup in my apartment
Armor Jacket with 2 fire resistance
Lined Coat with 2 fire resistance and 2 chemical resistance
High Explosive Grenade x9
Slap patch rating 4   x 4
Fake Sin Rating 2     x2
200 regular ammo
1 month low lifestyle(apartment)
Meta Commlink
Briefcase with hidden compartment(smg size)
Black sunglasses with smartlink and image link
Concealable Holster x2
Cougar Fineblade
Stun Baton AZ
Doc Wagon Contract(Basic)
Wire Clippers

*Some notes on my gear*

My character just moved to Seattle so there are many things I plan to get but don't have at the moment
The campaign is only 3 sessions old and many things I want could not be acquired yet
I don't plan to be good at melee but that might change eventually

[UmaroVI]

I actually would like to see your gear - it's very important for a physical combatant to be well-equipped. Also, it's generally a lot easier to pick up a good new gun in-game than a lot of other things you might want, because guns are relatively inexpensive.

[UmaroVI]

Can you clarify exactly how your cyberlimbs are built? IE, Customization versus Cyberlimb Enhancement?

[Shadowjack]

I'm not sure what the technically correct answer to your question is but what I did was buy my cyber limbs with a rating of 3 on attributes and upgraded them at my discretion. They are also obvious cyber limbs. I'll update with my gear.

[The Big Peat]

I've always been slightly shaky on cyberlimbs, what with them not appealling to me at all, so I'm not going to comment on that bit particularly.

What I would say though is that low WP seems a huge massive screaming weakness ripe for GM exploitation. I'm not wild on the low(ish) reaction and edge, but I don't think I've ever made a runner with WP less than 3.

My suggestion? I'm not seeing what Cha 8's getting you that couldn't be done with Cha 7 or 6. Which would allow you to boost other attributes (if you were rebuilding this again).

Also, as an elf, you start at AGI 2.

I understand you've got a Mage buddy boosting your IP; I'd have still taken my own boost personally, and would certainly save towards them.

Why logic 3?

[Shadowjack]

Hehe I am aware that my low Will could get me into trouble I'm planning on getting it to 5 and I will be boosting my edge soon as well. I have 8 charisma because I wanted to be very socially skilled despite my cyber limbs inhuman nature. I wanted to be extreme in that way. Forgot to add my racial agility because I was too busy calculating my cyber limb stats ^_^ Thanks

As for extra IP's, in general I find them to be a bit strange as everyone seems to feel they need more than 1 to be competitive. To me, that is boring because it eats up too much essence and makes my character more similar to others heavily augmented characters. Also, per IP my character has the potential to be much stronger than standard street samurai with rating 1-3 wired reflexes because my fellow runner is giving me them anyway. So pound for pound, I should be stronger in a group fight. 1 v 1 I would obviously lose that  advantage.

Logic 3 is for First Aid and I have interest in other logic based  skills that I might want later. I also like the idea of my character  being a reasonably logical person.

[UmaroVI]

I'm not sure what the technically correct answer to your question is but what I did was buy my cyber limbs with a rating of 3 on attributes and upgraded them at my discretion. They are also obvious cyber limbs. I'll update with my gear.

Hold up, do you have SR4A, or do you have the old version of SR4?

They added in Customization for cyberlimbs in SR4A (apparently? I don't actually own the original). I only recently learned that this seems to have not always been around, which is I think why a lot of people think Cyberlimbs blow.

I take it this means what you did is, like, your leg has "Cyberlimb Enhancements" for +7 Body and Agility, and for +3 armor? But you didn't buy any Customization?

[Shadowjack]

Yes, that's right. I don't even know what cyber limb customization entails. I am using my physical copy of SR4, not the anniversary edition. I do have that on my pc but haven't read it yet as much of it seems unchanged and I didn't want to essentially read the same long book twice in a row.

[Charybdis]

This build looks weird to me.

Automatics and Throwing as the only offensive skills
No unarmed/melee or Athletic skills....

Negotiations skill of 7 seems mucho-weird. Max skill ratings are 6 unless you have the Aptitude positive quality
Charisma of 8 seems a waste. Dropping it to 7 will still give you a massive rating compared to other people in the street, but give you 25BP to spend on other things (2x Attributes like Edge or Willpower, or some more skills)

Now, big, key, glaring issue.... 1 IP

For a combat PC, this seems like a very messy form of suicide. Either:
- Grab a nice cheap set of Wired reflexes 2 (32k) and kiss goodbye to 3 essence BUT get +2 Reaction AND +2 IP....
or
- Beg steal, cheat, borrow, get-the-GM-laid or whatever it takes to talk your way into Synaptic Acceleration bioware (or the Drool-worthy Move-By-Wire cyber)

But relying on the mage to cast Increased Reflexes on you is a very co-dependent (and scary) option.

 - Multiple IP's are actually worth more than more armour.
 - More reaction (for dodging) is IMHO worth more than more armour.

[The Big Peat]

Cha 8 is pretty extreme. If you want to go there for RP purposes, sure, do it - but 7 is still a) really high b) a hell of a lot cheaper for you.

Log 3 - sure, do it for RP purposes and if you've got a role in mind, although personally this smells of spreading yourself too thin. Which I shouldn't be urging you against, its great not to see specialists... but in terms of power, not as useful.

On the matter of IPs... yes, I guess it can be a little boring how universal they are, but there's a reason for that. They do come in at a loss of essence which you probably couldn't have afforded with this character, or at a lot of money which I'm guessing you equally couldn't afford - but remember, if you have both cyber and bioware, you calculate them seperately and only apply half to essence loss. Which means Synaptic Boosters 2 would have only cost .5 essence. Which is more than ok. In a group fight, I don't think the fact you didn't buy yours yourself is going to be that much of an advantage, and goes the moment someone geeks the mage.

To me, its just common sense. Never rely on anyone else for something that you really, really need. You never know when they won't be there, or not able to do it.

[JoeNapalm]

First off, I applaud your statement that the character is meant to be fun, not perfect.

With that, you're already mostly there. 

That said, I don't think your premise is really possible. Excelling in combat with low Initiative and 1 IP is...well...the fight will be over before you get a chance to "excel".

Mixing Face with Cyber is definitely unique - not impossible, but you're probably never going to excel at that, either. I can envision a lot of scenarios where you're not even going to be allowed to get close enough to someone to be doing Face work - you'd LOOK too dangerous.

Your skills are basically a few scattered skills, plus the Influence Skill Group - did you pay for those individually? The notation seems to indicate that you bought the Group, then split it to raise Negotiation (allowed under RAW, but only with GM permission).

I say the other skills are scattered - Palming, First Aid, Ground Craft - there's no real focus, there. SR is usually team-based. It's okay to be versatile, but two of those skills involve burning BP for things you can cover with gear. A Medkit and a car with a decent Pilot. (What's that you say? Can't afford a car with a decent Pilot? Don't worry - your Rigger will have one.) My point is, you should focus on your core Role, and pick up secondary skills once you've done that.

Automatics and Throwing seem an odd combo - two ranged skills, one much more effective than the other under your current build. Why Throwing? What would this character do if he had to pass through a metal detector? He'd loose knives and guns, and be in a tough spot if things broke badly. I'm not going to say you can't conceal an assault rifle or SMG (my tank's AR has the same Concealment rating as a Hold-Out Pistol) but such things are very impolite and you can't count on being able to carry them at all times. Picking up Heavy Weapons later isn't going to help in that scenario.

Qualities: Again, kind of random. Double Jointed? First Impression? Not very Tank. (Double Jointed isn't very Face, either) Why no Negative Qualities? Great character hooks, and you can get your Positive Qualities for free.

Cyber - Tailored Phermones = Face. All that armor is impressive - you'll need it, because with INI 7 an 1 IP, you're going to spend a LOT of time listening to rounds ping off of it. That is, of course, until you get hit with a Stun Bolt (bypasses all that armor and kicks your WIL 2 square in the groin).

Gear:
-You have an Armor Jacket AND a Lined Coat. That gives you 8/6 armor (the same as just the Jacket, because they don't stack) and 14/10 Encumbrance for your trouble.
- 2 Rating 2 SINs are arguably not as good as 1 Rating 4 SIN. With a Rating 2, you risk burning one for something relatively minor. A backup isn't a bad idea, but I recommend getting as high a rating as you can, then a backup at as high a rating as you can if you can afford it.
- HE Grenades with a Rating 2 SIN means that when (not if) your SIN gets popped, they're going to call SWAT and haul your ass in to the pokey.

Anyway - most of this is addressing the same point, so I'll leave off. I'd figure out what role you really want, and focus on that. You can be a generalist, but that's a lot harder and you're never going to fare well against a well-balanced team. You can try to be a Face/Tank, but you really have to pick one to be good at, and fill in the gaps with the other - and even then, if your team has a dedicated Face or Tank, they'll be doing all the heavy lifting.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Tsuzua]

Since this character is already "in play", my suggestions are limited.  You may want to ask your GM to let you "remake" your character since you didn't know about cyberlimb customizations when making him.  If your GM refuses or you're playing missions, you'll just have to make do or hope you have the cash to replace your limbs eventually.  For a go-to SMG, I like the HK-227.

I'm going to join in on the get more initiative and passes train regardless.  Considering your build, you'll want to go with synaptic accelerators.  Until then, buffs from your mage friend is nice, but you'll want a backup.  I suggest Cram.  But your low base body and willpower might get you addicted.

I wouldn't cry too much about the willpower.  Sure more willpower is nice, but if you had willpower 5, you'll just have 1 less box of overflow when you get KOed by a stunbolt.

[Xarin]

I'm not sure what the technically correct answer to your question is but what I did was buy my cyber limbs with a rating of 3 on attributes and upgraded them at my discretion. They are also obvious cyber limbs. I'll update with my gear.

Hold up, do you have SR4A, or do you have the old version of SR4?

They added in Customization for cyberlimbs in SR4A (apparently? I don't actually own the original). I only recently learned that this seems to have not always been around, which is I think why a lot of people think Cyberlimbs blow.

I take it this means what you did is, like, your leg has "Cyberlimb Enhancements" for +7 Body and Agility, and for +3 armor? But you didn't buy any Customization?

Customization was added by Augmentation, and then SR4A just rolled it into the core rules.

Willpower is a weakness, as is the base Body 1 attribute if you ever run into chemical warfare like teargas or stun gas grenades, because those won't use the cyberlimb Body as the limbs are not involved in your lungs / fleshy bits resisting the toxins.  They do cut down on the chance of contact-vectors signifigantly though.

A good investment would be a nice Rating 6 Respirator.

[Shadowjack]

This character is made for a 2 man campaign so versatility is at a premium. I also don't want my character to be too generic. I could take all the usual stuff but then it feels like a point based class system and I really hate classes in games. Archetypes are good but I wouldn't want to be 100% focused in a particular role. This character is more of a hybrid and I have been quite pleased with his performance in game.

It is pretty clear that most characters similar to this one would have unarmed or melee weapon skills but I didn't have much interest in that for this particular character.

I did forget to mention I have aptitude. I don't think Charisma is a waste because I wanted the maximum possible to represent how I want my character to be perceived. I am not concerned about min maxing the ultimate character so paying the extra bp's to max out charisma didn't bother me at all.

I do realize that extra IP's are incredibly good but I don't want to force myself to take them as it's a bit too boring. If all combat characters must have them, it feels very stale. I would rather try playing without them and try to make it work, if I die, I die lol. For future characters I'll take advantage of extra IP's but for this guy I'm really having fun without them. I  am convinced my character can be extremely effective on the IP's he does have and I am fine to rely on my partner for extra IP's

Don't you guys think it's boring being practically forced to take extra IP's on all your combat characters? That sucks!

 In gaming in general I prefer dodging over heavy armor and I can see the raw power of dodging in Shadowrun, but this time I want to play very heavy armor. Keep in mind this is my first 4e character.

Basically my stance on being an unorthadox Face is if someone wants to discriminate against me because of my cyberware, so be it. It is a really fun dynamic to explore and so far has created some rich scenes

I don't stack the lined coat btw, I just own it for more social situations.

I did take the influence skill group, yes.

Palming can be used to increase my concealability, right? That's why I took it, so I can carry an smg with less problems.

Passing through a metal detector could be a big problem lol. I'll have to get a ceramic weapon or something.

To be honest, all the negative qualities are very unappealing to me. Double jointed I don't really like but the other 5 bp options didn't seem that interesting. First Impression is more for the Face aspect of my character.

The SIN's are low rating because I wasn't allowed to buy higher ratings during character creation. I will definitely get higher rating ones when I can.

Cyberlimb customizations I'll certainly look into.

I might take your advice on the respirator, that sounds pretty nice.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I hope it doesn't seem like I'm saying you're wrong on any of it, I'm just citing my reasoning and preferences. Also, and I mean no disrespect, I really enjoy the roleplaying in games like this so I don't always try to build a 100% focused character, a true master in one area. I like my characters to be realistic, I have good groundcraft skills because I thought it made sense, the same is true for First Aid. Throwing is there because I thought it would be fun and useful in many situations.

I want my character to feel like a real person in the world. In real life I have a very specialized job and many "skills" to help me perform my job well. But I also have lots of random skills that have nothing to do with my job. That's how I designed my character. I don't want to have a 100% cookie cutter character because to me, that defeats the purpose of the game. I like the openness of the game, I can mix and match and try something different. It's true, you could choose most of the same augmentations and sub out the Face elements and kick my ass 1 v 1. But this game is not only about who is better 1 v 1. My character can do well in many social situations, especially in the shadows and while some skills may seem random, they have all come in very handy in the few sessions I've played so far.

I hope I'm articulating my point well.In video games with character classes, it's pretty predictable  what the individual classes can do. That's why I don't enjoy video games as much as pen and paper rpgs. I don't want someone to look at my character and automatically know most of my augmentations, attributes and skills because I must have them because that's what I should have. If you saw my character world, you would have some idea what I could do but I would surprise you with many other things. That's a big part of the fun for me. I hope this makes sense and isn't offensive as its not meant to be. There are times when I like to play very conventional characters too!

[UmaroVI]

So I'm going to do 2 things. One is review things I would do differently on rebuilding the character from scratch, the other is suggestions for where to go from here assuming things are Fixed In Stone.

Being a SS/Face is totally fine, but hardcapping Charisma isn't worth it - the 25 points for that last one dice could be better spent elsewhere. I would drop Charisma to 7.

2 Willpower is asking for it.

I would really like more Reaction and Intuition; those are both worth softcapping for anyone who's serious about fighting.

Buying up Negotiation to 7 isn't possible (you'd need Aptitude) and not worth it. Save points and just buy Influence 4, then buy the whole group up.

Pilot is Reaction based. It's worth knowing but it's not something you need to be the Best of the Best at. I would have 1(3) and put the saved points into more Reaction.

Dodge is not useless but not that great either; if you only have 1 IP, then you cannot afford to blow it on a Full Defense very often. It is nice, but I would drop it if I had to in order to scrape up more points.

First Aid is a very useful skill for someone to have. Since your group only has 2 players, it might well be worth it for you to have First Aid depending on how the other character is built; if he's a non-Logic mage, then yeah, I would keep that. If your buddy is a hermetic mage with 7 logic or something I might drop it.

Palming isn't worth it for you; you have better ways to hide weapons, which I will cover under Gear later.

Throwing is bad. The only stuff really worth throwing is grenades, and you should be firing those from a grenade launcher because you need Airburst. I will discuss grenade launchers under Gear later. You should have Heavy Weapons instead, which will cover your sniping and grenading needs.

I'm going to just cover Gear once with an eye towards "what do you do now." This is not in particular priority order.

1. Guns: you want better guns. First, you unfortunately need to subject yourself to the Gun Modding rules from Arsenal, which while not bad per se are pretty complex, but you really do need to use them. I'm going to hit the highlights:

For times when you need to blow people away and don't care how unsubtle your gun is, grab a Sig Sauer from Gun Heaven. Mod it for Full Auto and then jam on enough Recoil Compensation. Load up with Ex-explosive and APDS for destroying vehicles and drones and murdering dudes. It also uses Sporting Rifle ranges which is nice.

For times when you need to take people alive, grab an Ingram SuperMach 100 from Arsenal and load it with Stick and Shock. Mod it for more recoil compensation.

For a concealable gun, grab a B&P MP-9 from Gun Heaven. Slap on Chameleon Coating, Barrel Reduction, and more recoil compensation; this can get it down to -3 Concealability which is alright.

Get an Ares Executive Protector from Arsenal. I love this gun because it is a briefcase that you can kill people with, and why would you not want that? Every automatics user should own one. Mod it for more recoil compensation.

Grab the Ingram Smartgun X, which is only Restricted but has a sound suppressor because legal system lol. Mod it for more recoil compensation.

Get a Cyber Machine Pistol in some limb, preferably the same limb that has your Cyberarm Gyromount. This is the ultimate concealable weapon. You can and should mod it (but you can't Accessorize, sadly); grab Full Auto and all the recoil compensation you can.

If you get Heavy Weapons, get yourself a Ares Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle (from Arsenal), check the Errata - it is AP half THEN -4. It is the real sniper rifle of the grimdark future. Also, an ArmTech MGL-6 for concealable grenades.

You cannot get a machine gun that is enough better than a Sig Sauer to be worth using a lower rated skill.

Miscellany:
Respirator 6. Gas Mask isn't a bad idea either.
A bunch of people are going to QQ about your dependance on your mage buddy for IPs. I think you can live with it, but I would carry Jazz and Cram for times when he's not around; they stack with Increase Reflexes anyways so why not? Drugs are good for you, kids.

Armor:
Time for some Pretty Pretty Princess Shadowrun Dressup

Here's what I recommend wearing, assuming your averaged body is at least 8 and you're not using WAR!

Armor Jacket, mod it with Gel Packs, Nonconductivity, and Fire Resistance
Form Fitting Full Body Armor, mod it for Chemical Protection
Helmet
The entire SecureTech PPP Systems armor

If you have over 8 body, you may want to own a suit of SWAT armor as well for times when you don't care about looking like the bastard offspring of a SWAT team and Robocop.

'Ware:
I'm going to hit the "should be your top priorities from here" rather than "everything you will ever want."

1) Get yourself dipped in Awesome, and by Awesome I mean Adapsin. Do this first, because it makes your new cyberware less Essence.
2) Get Genetic Optimization (Agility). You want this for your Cyberlimbs, because this bumps your Augmented Maximum up to 12, which is highly sweet. You could leave yourself 2 points of "space" in your limbs and get limbs with Customized Agility +4 and Agility Enhancement +3, then upgrade the Agility Enhancement after you get Gen Op, if you want to reverse the order.
3) Replace your limbs. All of them. You want to be using Customized, check the SR4A pdf you have under "Cyberlimbs." The long and short of it: they start at 3, and for +1 Availability and 1500 Nuyen, you can add +1 to a stat. You can Customize as much as you want, up to your metatype's normal (not Augmented) maximum. It's not like anyone is seriously going to not realize that you're a cyborg, so you might want to go whole hog and buy Bulk Modification (+1 capacity, +1 availability, 1000Y, max 4 purchases) on all your crap. After you Customize, you THEN stack on cyberlimb enhancements for higher stats. You should have Armor 4 in everything. I suggest Agility 12 (total) on everything for KISS purposes (otherwise you get into nuisances like "does Infiltration use my torso?" but you could maybe get away with just your arms being high agility if you just want to shoot dudes in the face. I suggest getting 9 STR on your arms for the extra Recoil Compensation. For Body, I suggest trying to get an average of 8; your legs have more space and it's OK to have uneven body. You will probably want one low-body arm with the Gyromount and the Cyber Machine Pistol and higher body on your legs. Foot Anchors are also l33t for extra recoil compensation. Finally, you should have cyberskates because they are cybernetic roller skates and that is totally sweet.

If you have leftover space, try to have less Customize and more Enhancement because it is cheaper. There's also like 10 zillion gadgets you can stick in your cyberware, some of which are niche useful and some of which are silly gimmicks.

After this:
Pain Editor is pro.
Trauma Dampeners are pro.
Tailored Pheremones 3, rather than 2, is not a bad idea.
Reflex Recorders are nifty.
Toxin Extractors are very expensive and kind of inefficient, but they shore up one of your weak points (toxins).