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Sniper/Mage is it possable

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Mirikon

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« Reply #15 on: <03-14-12/1957:04> »
Yes, you can use mirrors or other optical means to target LOS spells. Because Indirect Combat spells are like ranged attacks, just like a bullet, you can't 'bounce' them across mirrors, making them an exception to this rule. However, that mirror allows you to manabolt someone nicely, though at a -2 penalty for using the mirror.
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Inconnu

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« Reply #16 on: <03-15-12/1521:03> »
You never watched Crossing Shadows, did you? =3
Yes, it is very possible. In fact, if you don't mind a bit of a sacrifice of magic, you can do Mind over matter+ Cerebral boosters!!!
Edit-
Quote
"Goddamn mage sniper!"
"Wait, the sniper was a mage?"

JustADude

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« Reply #17 on: <03-15-12/1927:49> »
Yes, it is very possible. In fact, if you don't mind a bit of a sacrifice of magic, you can do Mind over matter+ Cerebral boosters!!!

Plus "Improved Ability (Longarms) 3" if you're going the Mystic Adept route. ;)
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K_killn

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« Reply #18 on: <03-15-12/2045:19> »
I'm defiantly going to use an actual sniper rifle so I'm gonna need longarms but I don't know which rifle

Captain Karzak

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« Reply #19 on: <03-15-12/2113:30> »
If you have longarms then it doesn't matter what sniper rifle you pick because the best sniping weapon is a (post-errata) gauss rifle, which is a heavy weapon, not a sniper rifle.

If you want a sniper rifle, just pick whichever one has the coolest sounding name or the best picture, since by virtue of the fact you are choosing longarms over heavy weapons, effectiveness is no longer the main consideration.

K_killn

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« Reply #20 on: <03-15-12/2118:28> »
If you have longarms then it doesn't matter what sniper rifle you pick because the best sniping weapon is a (post-errata) gauss rifle, which is a heavy weapon, not a sniper rifle.

If you want a sniper rifle, just pick whichever one has the coolest sounding name or the best picture, since by virtue of the fact you are choosing longarms over heavy weapons, effectiveness is no longer the main consideration.

So you are saying heavy weapons would be a better choice, ok so then I should do heavy weapons and specialize gauss rifle?

Captain Karzak

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« Reply #21 on: <03-15-12/2138:25> »
The Thunderstruck gauss rifle is a type of assault cannon. So assault cannons is the relevant heavy weapons specialization.

The stats, write-up and picture of the gauss rifle can be found in the Arsenal sourcebook, p30.

The errata I referenced states:

p. 30 Ares Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle
Add the following sentence to the end of the weapon description:
“Halve all armor but smart armor against the gauss rifle (before applying the AP modifier)”.

The errata is important. It's what makes this weapon worth using.

JustADude

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« Reply #22 on: <03-15-12/2141:22> »
If you have longarms then it doesn't matter what sniper rifle you pick because the best sniping weapon is a (post-errata) gauss rifle, which is a heavy weapon, not a sniper rifle.

If you want a sniper rifle, just pick whichever one has the coolest sounding name or the best picture, since by virtue of the fact you are choosing longarms over heavy weapons, effectiveness is no longer the main consideration.

Incorrect, for a few very simple reasons: First, and most importantly, Heavy Weapons CAN'T BE SILENCED. Secondly, they can't take any form of specialty ammo, only Gauss Rounds. Third, they require a separate battery pack in addition to their ammo.

A Gauss Rifle will make one godawful load of noise to do DV 9P AP -(Half - 4), while a Barrett Model 121, firing APDS ammo, does DV 9P AP -8, has a silencer and smartlink as stock features, and has a 40% bigger clip, which can be changed in one action instead of taking 2 for the battery + the clip. Also, since they're rolling at -6 (-7 with Electronic Firing) to Perceive the sound of your shots even before taking into account distance and atmospheric noise penalties, the odds are you'll get a quite a few off before anyone figures out what the heck is going on.

The only time a Gauss Rifle is hands-down superior is if you're going up against armored vehicles and don't care about noise... which in Shadowrun is hardly ever.
« Last Edit: <03-15-12/2148:40> by JustADude »
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Captain Karzak

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« Reply #23 on: <03-15-12/2213:23> »
Almost everything you just said was wrong.

Lets deal with noise first: The OP is planning on building a MAGE sniper. He will have access to the spirit concealment power. He will be firing on targets often from a significant distance. Noticing gunshots requires at least 1 hit on a perception test. Concealment + distance (or hell, just concealment alone) will be sufficient in nearly all circumstances. If not, there are other spells and powers that dampen sound.

A gauss rifle has a clip size of 10, and you are putting down one target per shot. These are not automatic weapons which consume ammunition at a voracious rate that we are comparing. The difference in clip size matters very little. A mass of targets will be deal with Stunball or a grenade launcher, not a sniper rifle or assault cannon.

Finally, the huge armor penetration of the gauss rifle will come up ALL THE BLOODY TIME. Do you not read anything UmaroVI posts? If are a mage, then you are using your weapon to do what your spells cannot - to shoot through walls, or to kill someone in a vehicle. Also, I've heard there are these things called spirits. I'm not sure if they are in this edition of SR, but if they are, I'll bet all that Armor Pen will come in really handy somehow.

Oh, I know, how about cyberlimb-armored orcs or trolls? They can easily have more armor than a vehicle. Or do cyberlimbs not appear in your games either? No spirits, no walls, no vehicles, no cyberlimbs? That's weird, man.

So I'll bottom line it: If you are using you are making good use of your abilities and playing intelligently, a gauss rifle is hands-down superior. And it's MORE superior the tougher your opposition gets.
« Last Edit: <03-15-12/2216:33> by Captain Karzak »

K_killn

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« Reply #24 on: <03-15-12/2222:36> »
"Silence Spell
Silence creates an area that dampens sound. Because it is a physical spell, Silence affects technological devices and is useful for jamming alarms, detection devices, sonar and tactical communications. Sonic attacks into or out of the field are reduced in Power by the Force of the spell. All Hearing Perception Test target numbers within or across the field are increased by +1 per success on the Sorcery Test, up to a maximum equal to the Force of the spell."

Would this spell work for silencing the weapon

EDIT:Or maybe thus spell

Stealth
Stealth is cast on a target who becomes inaudible to normal hearing. The subject can move in complete silence and nothing they do makes noise. Things not being touched by the subject can still make noise, so a character under a stealth spell would make no noise knocking on a door, but the door would make noise hitting the floor or wall if it was kicked in.
« Last Edit: <03-15-12/2231:20> by K_killn »

Crash_00

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« Reply #25 on: <03-15-12/2235:24> »
Quote
Lets deal with noise first: The OP is planning on building a MAGE sniper. He will have access to the spirit concealment power. He will be firing on targets often from a significant distance. Noticing gunshots requires at least 1 hit on a perception test. Concealment + distance (or hell, just concealment alone) will be sufficient in nearly all circumstances. If not, there are other spells and powers that dampen sound.
Concealment does not do anything to noise. It just gives a penalty to locate the target, not hear that giant assault weapon go off. Just because they hear it doesn't mean they know where you're at of course, but it does mean that they'll be calling in the heavy hitters for reinforcement.

Likewise the gaping craters left by the Guass Cannon are going to be much more noticeable than the considerably smaller craters left by the sniper rifles. One gets swat called in, the other gets the national guard called in.

Captain Karzak

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« Reply #26 on: <03-15-12/2237:22> »
The concealment spirit power is usually the best option, since it can create a penalty to perception dice pools large enough that people can no longer even make a perception test to hear you. Distance from the target also creates another penalty that can help you compound this effect.

Physical mask is the next step, if you need one. You're already probably using it to disguise your weapon (a gauss rifle and a sniper rifle are both practically impossible to conceal through mundane means). Physical mask can alter sound as well as sight and smell. There's no reason why your firearm discharging should sound anything like a firearm. Nor is any reason it has to be anywhere near as loud.

ArkangelWinter

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« Reply #27 on: <03-15-12/2310:00> »
(a gauss rifle and a sniper rifle are both practically impossible to conceal through mundane means).

Have you ever actually seen someone, well-practiced, break down a sniper rifle? Even if all you're removing is the stock and barrel, you can stuff it in a bag or case and calmly walk out of the building like any other salaryman, which is to me the biggest advantage of the sniper rifle versus the Gauss cannon.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #28 on: <03-15-12/2319:00> »
Not being able to use a mundane silencer is a really minor drawback in comparison because, as pointed out, you are a mage. Built-in silencers are -6 to hear. There are a variety of different illusion spells that prevent people from hearing anything at all unless they resist - Silence is one option, Physical Mask is another, Stealthing your gun is a third, Sound Barrier is a fourth, and there are probably other options out there.

Ark: that's just one mod slot away with the Easy Breakdown mod for any weapon, so it's not really that big of a selling point on the sniper rifle. The actual selling points are really just the silencer (which matters basically not at all on a mage), and that sniper rifles are cheaper and easier to get than assault cannons. Personally, I'd rather use the overall better weapon type, since even though they are more expensive, 13000 isn't that much and its not like a mage is going to need to pay out the wazoo for cyberware.

The best argument for sniper rifles is "you can start with a good sniper rifle, but you have to wait to get paid once or twice to pick up a good assault cannon."
« Last Edit: <03-15-12/2322:05> by UmaroVI »

K_killn

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« Reply #29 on: <03-15-12/2328:16> »
Have you ever actually seen someone, well-practiced, break down a sniper rifle? Even if all you're removing is the stock and barrel, you can stuff it in a bag or case and calmly walk out of the building like any other salaryman, which is to me the biggest advantage of the sniper rifle versus the Gauss cannon.

I've actually looked into this Easy Break Down:
Let's the weapon be broken down easily for Concealability. Changes: Let's weapon be broken down in 3 complex actions.