[shrike]

Crazy idea that came to me under the shower (cliché, I know): what if Aina's spirit had somehow merged with Zebulon? That would explain the "fractured personality" thing.

*snip*

On a side note, the spirit of Denver shattered and then Denver was divided into zones... Now that she is reunited, will Denver also reunite?

Love that idea Marzhin. And I dont think so Black. That seems to be one of Denver's main draws (it's diversity and divided nations in one spot).

[Crimsondude]

Well, to compensate for some glibness I should quote this relevant statement.

At the moment, his people aren’t rebelling against the new strictures. Instead, they are increasingly developing a bunker mentality, acting as if it’s Denver against the world. And Ghostwalker is their leader in this fight, so they’re not resisting his new orders.

[ArkangelWinter]

Well, to compensate for some glibness I should quote this relevant statement.

At the moment, his people aren’t rebelling against the new strictures. Instead, they are increasingly developing a bunker mentality, acting as if it’s Denver against the world. And Ghostwalker is their leader in this fight, so they’re not resisting his new orders.

Perhaps we'll get to see a Denver Free City-State. I doubt the constituent countries would be willing to commit troops to stop a rebellion, with so many irons in their fires already. The Azzies might see it as a moment of weakness though

[CanRay]

"Though the assistance of our good friends in Aztlan, we, the Free City of Denver..."

Spirits, that just scares the living hell out of me!

[wolfrider66]

Aw for the love of (insert the funniest name you can think of)_________!!!,

I'm trying very hard not to get my early game mixed up in meta-plots but damn it all, you guys are making it difficult. The creative juices are simmering very close to a boil here.......

wolfrider66
"Make your own luck."

[Mirikon]

Shadowrun has always been the future of Earthdawn. Or at least, Earthdawn has always been the past of Shadowrun. From the earliest days of Shadowrun, you've seen a rising tide of magic, because the cycle is getting stronger. It is this depth of history and the SOTA of technology struggling to keep up with the rising magic levels that separates Shadowrun from the multitude of other cyberpunk games out there. There are times when Shadowrun focuses more heavily on the magic side of things, but there are times when they focus on the tech side of things, too. Surely you can't say that Shutdown, Brainscan, and System Failure weren't tech-heavy plot arcs, yes? Likewise, Survival of the Fittest and the Dragon Civil War are magic-centric plots. If you dislike the magic portion of Shadowrun, then Paranoia XP is right over there.

What we're seeing now is the culmination of threads that have been woven together since before Dunkelzhan died. In the grand schemes of dragons, the true master's plots continue to ensnare even his peers, twenty years after his death. Likewise, many of the other magic-centric plots have been building for some time. The Ares-bug connection has been game lore since Threats 2, for instance. The Az/Am war is just a continuation of the struggles those two countries have had for years, as the Amazonian Awakened try to prevent their jungles from being Corrupted by the Azzies.

This is not Shadowrun becoming Earthdawn's future, it is building a world with depth and history, the likes of which is worlds apart from any other cyberpunk game out there.

[lurkeroutthere]

I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest I play a different game because their idea of SR and mine don't match up.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Crazy idea that came to me under the shower (cliché, I know): what if Aina's spirit had somehow merged with Zebulon? That would explain the "fractured personality" thing.

I always thought it was because Zebulon had infant been split not a number of pieces, as outlined in the original Denver box set.  One of those fragments was a racist policlub leader known as glennis shard.  Real nasty piece of work, mostl likely a shadow spirit.   She even lead a policlub called unity. 

Now that Zebulon is reunited into one being, she my still be dealing itch the fallout of a these strong personalities merging together.

On a side note, the spirit of Denver shattered and then Denver was divided ino zones... Now that she is reunited, will Denver also reunite?

Shad, not Shard, IIRC.  However, a few other points ...

According to other more-or-less authoritave posts here, Zebulon was recombined with the spirit of Ghostwalker's old mate.  It's dealing with that, combined with the problems you name of reintegrating diverse personalities from the split, that is part of what's going on with Zebulon now.

However, whatever makes you think Denver isn't reunited on the mystic level already?  When Ghostwalker seized power, he also hunted down Zebulon's fragments.  (Anyone not actually see that when they read it?)  He kicked Aztlan out for diverse reasons, and then basically put Denver back together on both the political and mystic levels.  Sure, the current 'us against the world' is solidifying that idea in hearts and minds, but it started when he took control and kicked Aztlan out ...

There are other things happening with Aina.

I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest I play a different game because their idea of SR and mine don't match up.

Well, it's tough to appreciate what you say when you throw it out there so ... pugnaciously.  And then get all snarky about the backlash you incite.

That said, well - Mirikon is essentially correct.  In-game events since 2057 have been driven by politics, by crime, and especially by technology.  It was inevitable that magic was going to roll back around and take center-stage for a while.  It's too bad you don't like it - but a) plenty of other people do, b) that's where the focus is at the moment, and c) you don't have to run your games that way.  Feel free to keep voicing your opinion, though.  Don't be surprised when your style gets a response, though.

[Mara]

I wondered how long it would take someone to suggest I play a different game because their idea of SR and mine don't match up.

Well, it's tough to appreciate what you say when you throw it out there so ... pugnaciously.  And then get all snarky about the backlash you incite.

That said, well - Mirikon is essentially correct.  In-game events since 2057 have been driven by politics, by crime, and especially by technology.  It was inevitable that magic was going to roll back around and take center-stage for a while.  It's too bad you don't like it - but a) plenty of other people do, b) that's where the focus is at the moment, and c) you don't have to run your games that way.  Feel free to keep voicing your opinion, though.  Don't be surprised when your style gets a response, though.

Consider that the other Cyberpunk game out there, Cyberpunk, had a 100% technological progression...and ended up so strange that it did not even resemble Cyberpunk anymore. Heck, hacking is not even a part of the rules in the most recent version(or, at least, that I could see).  Shadowrun, at least, tries to keep the Cyberpunk side of things going. Frankly, what bothers me more is that it is a Demo Agent speaking badly about the game's progression. Aren't they the people who are
supposed to trying to persuade new people to join? I know that, now, if I ever knew he was the Agent running something at a Con, I would NOT play at his table, because he hates my types of characters(He hates the magical storylines, so he obviously hates magic users, and I like magic characters). I would question his objectivity as a GM were I to bring the types of characters I like to play.   

Frankly, you can run Shadowrun without any of the Earthdawn tie ins..filling in blanks from your own imagination. Some of us(myself included) know very little about Earthdawn. The easter eggs in the stuff with the Dragons and Immortal Elves is
always something neat. However, I really do not think one needs to emphasize those past connections. I mean, the discussions
here about the Earthdawn forms of these Dragons fascinated me, because it was another layer. However, you could easily create your own Fourth World History for the Greats using what little we know of them at present. The Great Dragons are as much a part of Shadowrun as Elf Riggers and Dwarf Shamans and Ork Mafiosi and Cybered Trolls shooting huge arse guns.
If you do not want Elves, Dwarves, Orks, Trolls, Dragons, etc, then perhaps Shadowrun really is not the game world for you.
If you don't want magic, and only want people to play cybered up characters, then Shadowrun DEFINATELY is not the game
world for you.

The system, though, is actually flexible. I have used it to do high fantasy, and even modern day stuff and Space Opera(Heck,
it works surprisingly well for Star Wars)....but the WORLD is something that is what it is. Get used to it being the way it is,
or have fun with another setting. But...Shadowrun is not Shadowrun without the magic that defines the setting from
Eclipse Phase or Cyberpunk 2020.

[Black]

Mara, I don't think lurker was talking down shadowrun so much as expressing a view point on the current magic/awakening type plot lines.

That said, such discussion is likely to trigger all sorts of replies which have nothing to do with clutch of dragons...

Maybe we should have a discussion topic about what types of plots we want focused on in the future?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Sorry, Black, but on a second reading, 'I hate dragons and magic in Shadowrun' is more-or-less how it comes across.  Sure, Lurker is writing submissions and/or whatever; it's clear he likes the game, otherwise a) he wouldn't be a demo agent, b) he wouldn't be on the boards, and c) he wouldn't be writing (or trying to write) for the game.  But the way he writes here on the boards is argumentative, offensive in the extreme, and when he's called on it as Mirikon did above, he gets shirty, as if he is the one who ought to be offended.

If I was a new player instead of occasionally smiling at my 1E1P with all the fantabulous errors bought six months after they started the game, sure as hell I'd read that as 'this game is turning to shit, I don't know why the hell I'm still here, you newbies get out while you can and go find something interesting to play'.

As a particular response to his complaint, though - about Thor shots being unilaterally taken off the table by the Corporate Court, and about that being 'a world-changing event' - my response (besides 'Thor shots have been hackable for years') is also 'what, you actually think this was something they went and took out a full-page ad in the New York Times to announce?'  This would have been ordered and those orders sent to select individuals.  It wouldn't have been word on the street.  To boot, I really don't think it's a world-changing event.  'Oh no, we and the surrounding nine city blocks can no longer be blown up from orbit!' is not something the man on the street, or the runner on the street, generally needs to concern themselves with.  Or does concern themselves with.  Except for, you know, that paranoid schizophrenic who lives in a car and rants about satellite-generated Y-rays targetting his brain, which is why he wears the tin-foil hat ...

[Black]

Sorry, Black, but on a second reading, 'I hate dragons and magic in Shadowrun' is more-or-less how it comes across.  Sure, Lurker is writing submissions and/or whatever; it's clear he likes the game, otherwise a) he wouldn't be a demo agent, b) he wouldn't be on the boards, and c) he wouldn't be writing (or trying to write) for the game.  But the way he writes here on the boards is argumentative, offensive in the extreme, and when he's called on it as Mirikon did above, he gets shirty, as if he is the one who ought to be offended.

*sigh* I understand, and I knew Lurker would cope some heat for his post as soon as  I saw it.  Lurker can state and defend his opinion himself, his plenty capable.  Likewise, Mirikon and other posters are entitled to their opinions as well.  Personally, I probably fall somewhere in the middle, which means I'm plenty happy regardless of plot direction.  Two of my favourite Shadowrun books are Dragons of the Sixth World and Survival of the Fittest.  One day I will run SotF for my guys and it will be great way to end a campaign. So I don't mind the recent focus on the big lizards. 

But I get that for some, their tolerance level of the antics of our mostly all powerful immortal dragon lords and other awakened topics might get a bit dull and they would prefer... something grittier or more technology focused or something.  And that would be cool too.  I think I'm not along in hopeing for a return of our 3 A.I.s...  or maybe another war between the Yakuza and the Mafia, or a more human story about saving and redeeming a gang boss, or just something a bit different.  Shadowrun is a pretty big world and there is lots if different styles, storylines etc.

Except for, you know, that paranoid schizophrenic who lives in a car and rants about satellite-generated Y-rays targetting his brain, which is why he wears the tin-foil hat ...

Hey!  Plan 9 is a great guy/gal!

[Longshot23]

Just occurred to me: something that would shake things up even more, and serve as a follow-up to CoD - a statement from Sirrurg intended as both an answer to Hestaby's UN address and an indictment of Aztlan, and probably more.

A shame such a thing would be (as far as we readers/players can tell) SO out of character for him. And that's ignoring the authentication issues that would exist.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Honestly, from a tactical and strategic race-political standpoint, right now the only thing Sirrug and Alamais have to offer the draconic world is their deaths by draconic claws.  :/  Dragons need to be seen by the Younger Races that yes, certain things against the Younger Races are not acceptable - but that the Younger Races do not have the authority to punish dragonkind.

[Wakshaani]

Just occurred to me: something that would shake things up even more, and serve as a follow-up to CoD - a statement from Sirrurg intended as both an answer to Hestaby's UN address and an indictment of Aztlan, and probably more.

A shame such a thing would be (as far as we readers/players can tell) SO out of character for him. And that's ignoring the authentication issues that would exist.

Yeah, Sirrug's not exactly a press release kind of guy.

(Though now I have a wonderful mental image of a press conference, with Sirrug wearing a suit, walking up to a podium to make a prepared statement, with a couple of lawyers behind him. He adjusts his glasses (He, of course, has reading glasses), thanks the press for attending, clears his throat, adjusts the mic, leans in ... and blasts the crowd with a breath of flame.

"Thank you."

He then walks away.)