[wolfrider66]

what follows is a small blurb between Slamm-0 & Fast Jack about an old pistol in the Gun Heaven rule book :

> I found the nano-forge schematics for these a couple of weeks ago. I could use
them to go legit—Acme Arms, for your self-protection needs!
> Slamm-0!
> Too bad the RFIDs in the feedstock would point a huge arrow straight at you
and your customer’s heads once you started selling them. I also doubt that S-K,
or any mega, would be too happy with someone trying to manufacture one of
their designs, old or not.
> FastJack

Why would the RFIDs point anywhere? If Slamm-0 made them himself would they even have them? The way I understand RFIDs is that they are just info tags handy for product facts and anti-theft (shoplifting). Slamm-0 could type anything on them. Obviously they have more uses..hmmmm. Back to the books lol.

[TheNarrator]

In this particular case, 'Jack is saying that RFIDs are being mixed in with the raw materials that a nanoforge uses to make stuff (the "feed stock") before it's sold to the nanoforge owner.

It wouldn't be the first time that it's been implied in SR4 that RFIDs are now available on nano scale. Although you'd thing that you could solve that by running a Tag Eraser over the feed stock before using it, but perhaps they're shielded.

[Mirikon]

Indeed. The feedstock the Nanoforge uses is typically rife with RFIDs. Unless you have a connection that can get you some 'clean' feedstock. Even so, that's not going to be cheap. While you could theoretically blast the feedstock with a tag eraser, it is not going to be easy to get all the RFID tags.

[FastJack]

Actually, the RFID doesn't need to be nano. If he's building it from a nanoforge with stolen blueprints, it will "print" the object exactly as the blueprints show—including any built-in RFID in the weapon.

Think of it this way with the current 3D printers. I can put out blueprints/files that would let the 3D Printer print out widgets of my design. Someone could steal the blueprints/files and print them out without my permission. But if I include that there's a "defect" built into the unseen core of the widget (doesn't actually affect how it works, just adds a hollowed out space in the shape of a nine-digit number), then I can prove they used my files to build the widget without my permission by putting the widget through an x-ray/mri/scanner.

[Mirikon]

No, it is pretty explicit that there are RFIDs in the feedstock itself. However, those wouldn't have to be nano-sized, either. There's no actual information on the structure of that feedstock, whether it comes as a powder, a liquid, a solid block, chips, grains of rice, or what have you. Mixing RFIDs into that would be child's play, so long as they are too small to be identified as different from the rest of the stock. All you would need is for the nanoforge to recognize the RFID and leave it intact during the production process, and it would naturally be mixed in with the rest of the new item.

[Ethan]

Hire a mage to develop a spell called "Destroy RFIDs" and make it LOS(A). It'll have to be Force 5 or so to overcome the Object's highly processed nature, so it could be a Limited Spell. He can come over whenever you have a new shipment. Plus, he'll get to clean stuff on his own so you don't have to pay him too much if he's a 'runner.

Other than running several Tag erasers yourself on the thing, that's a reliable way to clean your feedstock.

I guess the RFIDs "pointing back" somewhere could be that they can be used like serial numbers (or have their own serial numbers). So they can trace who supposedly bought the feedstock.

Real money to be made in making clean feedstock... do we know what it actually is?

[wolfrider66]

Does a nano-forge use single material stock to fabricate items or can it use multiple base materials. Because if the later is the case then it would make sense that the RFIDs can be 'built in' by the blue print. Otherwise how would something plastic , for example, be made into an electric device? 

And thanks for the responses everyone, it's allot easier to learn this game with your help than without.

[wolfrider66]

Thanks for the info folks. I am seriously cramming. I realized this morning (East coast USA, Kensington, Maryland) that in the last three days I've bought 14 books. Point is I am starting to suffer from information overload. I am getting ready for my first game and the four of us are Shadowrun virgins.         As I said in my greeting post we played AD&D for around 30 years or so since it was a little yellow book called Chainmail or some such with me as DM and it was time for us to move on.

I gotta go for now, be on later.

[CanRay]

Now I have the idea from Transmetropolitan of poor corporations picking through the streets, getting garbage to fill the feedstocks of their nanoforges.

[farothel]

Other question: can't a guy like Slamm-O simply change the blueprints so they don't put the RFIDs in anymore?  For a hacker of his quality it should be fairly easy to modify a blueprint file?

[TheNarrator]

That's why I think that the RFIDs are in the feedstock, and the problem is that they would allow police and corps to trace the new bootleg guns that hit the black market to the person who made them by checking who bought the feed stock.

[Mirikon]

Spells like 'Destroy [Object]' require you to see the target to affect them. Meaning that RFIDs that you can't see with the naked eye wouldn't be destroyed by such a spell.

And there are simply too many RFIDs in the feed stock to erase them all with a tag eraser.

Really, your best option would be to write a custom worm that reprograms the RFIDs in some manner. But that presents its own list of problems.

[The_Gun_Nut]

Mirkon, if that were the case, then the sterilize spell would not function (for those wondering, yes, it destroys bacteria, viruses, and stray body cells).  Since those are not visible to the naked eye, I'd say that a spell that let you nuke RFID's is possible, but difficult.

[Halancar]

Reread the section of Desktop Manufacturing, Arsenal p.130-131. Part of the problem is that the megacorps realized they made a mistake in inventing those, because they cut too much into their profits, so they are limiting them every way they can think of. And for starters, but only manufacturing (or at least selling) feedstock riddled with stealth RFID,

As for removing the tags, well:
<quote> ...feedstock in the form of a special plastic powder with metal fibers and microchips/tags mixed in ...</quote>

Apparently the feedstock needs to have its own microchips and tags mixed in so the desktop forge can use it (presumably so it can check the progress, align the right fibers, and so forth). So good luck separating those from stealth tags ! And afterwards, well, destroying a stealth tag is not easy, it's extra hard to locate and you have to bring your tag eraser within one centimeter of it, so if you are making a large piece and it is in the center that may not even be possible... And even if the piece isn't too large, you could still 'miss a spot'.

You still have some options, like an EMP pulse or some tailored Detect Stealth Tag + Destroy Stealth Tag spells, but is it even worth it ? Remember, this started as a discussion about making some cheap bootleg guns !

[Ethan]

Hmm, Destroy RFIDs would be a Combat spell and they require a visual link to that target. It's the same as if you cast Stunball in the middle of 3 guards but you can only see 2 of them: the third one isn't affected because it's a direct spell.

So, a custom indirect LOS(A) spell with a very limited target: Squish Nanofeedstock RFIDs. You'll have to overcome an OR of 3-5 at least. So I'll make that sucker a Limited Spell and tie it with a fetish.

I don't have Street Magic at the moment, but can you make Indirect spells have limited targets?

Is it worth it? They maybe cheap guns, but demand will be high. That said, the mage'll be spending some time erasing his astral signature from the stuff.