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Questions / Notes from Clutch of Dragons …War at 10,000 meters

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Ethan

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« Reply #60 on: <11-01-12/1302:05> »
Except they aren't doing it everywhere. They're doing it in someplace far away that no one really cared about for the last couple decades at least. And they still have to make their deadlines or they'll lose their job and rent will still be due.

The Dragons don't have to be everywhere. Dragons are eating people. This isn't the same ol' violence or drug war. Humans, or metahumans, aren't doing the killing. Big flaming lizards are.

So they'll be afraid, then they'll BTL it away. But there'll be increased tension for those who actually get to see the reports.



Lacynth40

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« Reply #61 on: <11-01-12/1457:34> »
Europe? What's that?
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

Sichr

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« Reply #62 on: <11-01-12/1509:05> »
offense intended?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #63 on: <11-01-12/1515:46> »
offense intended?

No, it reads as a joke, similar to when Americans use "Otherplacia" and "Otherplacia" for somewhere that isn't the US. It's a meta-comment about how many Americans can't be bothered to learn about other places, like Europe.

We're ... rather inward-looking.

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« Reply #64 on: <11-01-12/1522:01> »
I have strange feeling about this topic...

Lacynth40

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« Reply #65 on: <11-01-12/1705:40> »
Yes, it was a joke. And a comment on how a lot of the modern gaming systems seems to be America-centric. Honestly, I have a lot of trouble finding books that detail the problems Europe and Africa face, but Asia and the Western Hemisphere seem to always be pretty detailed. I mean, this is the first time I can remember GeMiTo getting a lot of attention, and I wasn't sure what it even was before Clutch of Dragons. I must have missed the one or two sentence write-up that explained it somewhere in the books I have. I am sure I am just missing the books that specify, but it does seem like my Shadowrun collection is missing some really important details about 'running in Europe.
"Remember, you can't have manslaughter without laughter."

"If violence begat violence, in every case, every human on the planet would instantly devolve into gibbering murderers in a day."

Wakshaani

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« Reply #66 on: <11-01-12/1716:28> »
Do you, by chance, have Shadows of Europe?

Mirikon

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« Reply #67 on: <11-01-12/1805:39> »
On a related note, it is possible that more things have been done with GeMiTo in the German material, but that it just hasn't been translated over to English. As I understand, there are a lot of plots and materials that have taken place in the German material that are canon, but is only referenced as innuendo in the English.

Ethan, that is exactly why there are no reports from the 'trusted sources'. Because fear interferes with productivity, and is bad for business. Hell, governments and corporations have been actively squashing stories on the dragon agents attacking talismongers and magical groups, haven't they? There is an active media blackout going on, and anything that does get out is cast as 'gang violence' or the like. Fear is bad for business, so the corps are doing what they can to prevent mass panic.

Sichr, people who live in or near GeMiTo are probably scared stiff, and crying out for someone to help them, but do you really think that anyone important enough to matter is still in that city? They're off in Rome, or Paris, or Moscow, working via Matrix. And while the Court might have orbital weapons at its disposal, those weapons are fairly indiscriminate. And Alamais has been hit by orbital lasers before, and is still around. Do you really think he'd fall for the same trick twice? That is what the members of the Court have to be thinking. They don't have any weapons they can be sure of taking down a great dragon with, short of (possibly) Thor. And Thor isn't known for its discretion when it comes to collateral damage. So yes, they might be able to kill Alamais and his brood, but they would have to sacrifice all the assets in GeMiTo to do it. And either way, they have to deal with not only a PR nightmare (whenever WMD are used in populated areas, it is a PR nightmare), but the fact that taking out a Great Dragon very likely would antagonize the other dragons even more. And it is VERY doubtful that metahumans could win an all-out war on dragonkind.

You can't just look at one frame, and say how they could stop this. You have to read further through the storyboard, and follow those actions to their logical ends. And right now, there is no way this ends well if the Court deals with Alamais. Especially since use of orbital weapons requires Court approval, and guess who's pet company is on the court? Can the rest of the big 10 really trust that Lofwyr wouldn't alert his brother to an incoming attack? Sure, they've never been close, but dragons hate to see the Young Races take down other dragons... These are the doubts that are keeping the Court in check.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #68 on: <11-01-12/1939:48> »
Yes, it was a joke. And a comment on how a lot of the modern gaming systems seems to be America-centric.
This may be because most gaming systems are written in America - and perhaps as a consequence, large numbers of gamers are, well, American.  Gamers of all stripes like to play either a) where they live - when I lived in Cincinnati, we Ran in Cincinnati - or b) where the game is set, i.e. Seattle for Shadowrun, New York for Marvel, etc.

That said, Shadowrun is one of the few that I've observed that has made an effort to explore pretty much the entire world.  As for the issues in GeMiTo, well ... okay, Lucy, let me 'splain.

The area - GeMiTo - really is like sub-Saharan Africa today.  The corporations like the place just the way it is - chaotic, without government, with the citizens who are dependent on them knowing they're dependent.  The corporations put the infrastructure in only where they control - which means that, like much of Sub-Saharan Africa today, the people who live there simply do not have a lot of what most people everywhere else take for granted.  Sub-Saharan Africa: clean water, electrical power, easy transportation.  GeMiTo: wireless, clean water, electrical power, easy transportation.

Unlike most of the events in East Africa, you don't have roaming terror squads, which you can flee; Darfur was made known to the international community because hundreds of thousands were driven from their homes, villages burned, and that is when reporters got a hold of the facts.  You lose 300 people a day, scattered across sixty-one thousand square kilometers, and things are uncertain.  Nobody's getting driven from their homes; one person is lifted, per day, from 200 square kilometers - each sixteen-kilometer (or ten-mile) diameter circle.  Might be your house; might be four miles away.  Over the last six months, one person has died within the square kilometer in which you live.

So what do you do?  You don't actually have any real way to report this; your normal Matrix networking has gone to pot, some of it wrecked completely over the last almost-thirty years.  In fact, you almost don't have anything to report, unless you are aware that two hundred kilometers away, the same thing is happening - but you don't have any way to discover that.  The international community doesn't have the smoking cannon of entire communities getting displaced; you have what amounts to single, individual killers, not ones wrecking your entire town and driving you, your family, and everyone in your neighborhood hither and yon.

The horrific events of the dragons hunting in GeMiTo isn't a huge international outcry because a) it's only able to be recognized by someone who's looking for it (and putting together information from across sixty-one thousand square kilometers is going to be hellishly difficult), and b) because even if you're looking for it, you have one hell of a time actually contacting people to confirm it, much less getting the information out past the people who really don't want to have the international community looking closely at the area.

If you want to tighten GeMiTo up to the triangular area hilighted in the Almanac, your areas are 7374 square kilometers, one person per day per 24 2/3 square kilometers (2.8 km diameter, or 1.75 miles), one person across the last six months from within a hundred meters radius from where you live.  More intense, certainly.  Still, because of the fact that it's spread out over time and space, stuff like this gets missed.  It's only when it's taken together as a whole that it becomes a smack in the face.

This really doesn't have anything to do with America-centric information; this has to do with something that is insidious despite its apparently overt nature.  A dragon takes a single person from a mile away, okay, fine, whatever - you're more concerned about the seven zip-gun-armed punks that hang out on the stoop of the house next door to yours, because they're a current, daily, immediate threat...
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Sichr

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« Reply #69 on: <11-02-12/1059:02> »
....they would have to sacrifice all the assets in GeMiTo to do it. And either way, they have to deal with not only a PR nightmare (whenever WMD are used in populated areas, it is a PR nightmare), but the fact that taking out a Great Dragon very likely would antagonize the other dragons even more. And it is VERY doubtful that metahumans could win an all-out war on dragonkind.

Now Im confused. Allowing drgons to eat tens of thousands of people in the GeMiTo area in last six months is something normal people are not even aware of, but using the WMD on the same area would be PR nightmare. Hell I think youve outmaneuvered yourself a bit...

Sichr

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« Reply #70 on: <11-02-12/1130:23> »
If you want to tighten GeMiTo up to the triangular area hilighted in the Almanac, your areas are 7374 square kilometers, one person per day per 24 2/3 square kilometers (2.8 km diameter, or 1.75 miles), one person across the last six months from within a hundred meters radius from where you live.  More intense, certainly.  Still, because of the fact that it's spread out over time and space, stuff like this gets missed.  It's only when it's taken together as a whole that it becomes a smack in the face.

This means one Great/Adult Dragon attack per victim. Something you wont miss. and something you wont keep for yourself.
As for lack of communications:

http://www.quick-tech-news.com/category/india

 ;D

Also...wasnt Horizon running the campaign to spread the used commlinks to feral cities across the world? GeMiTo may had been left behind, on the other side, even Lagos wasnt, and IMO Lagos is much worse mess than GeMiTo...
« Last Edit: <11-02-12/1132:11> by Sichr »

Nath

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« Reply #71 on: <11-02-12/1206:44> »
I find it unlikely Alamais and his company would be randomizing their attacks, carefully picking a new location every time. The whole dragon supemacist thing and the fact Alamais previous preferred tools were terrorist organizations led me to expect something more like thirty-tons flying lizards striking in plain day, eating entire family at once, so that everyone get to see who rule. The kind of things that makes a story worthy to be told outside of your square kilometer (just for the sake of saying "I've seen a dragon." which most people in the Sixth World cannot say), spread, and create rumors, that get confirmed by people from the square kilometer next. The thing staying unoticed kinda defeat the purpose of the statement: the dragon race is to dominate humanity, but only where it is appropriate and not too obvious?

Local independent medias are a recent addition to how information spread in Africa. For a long time, medias were under government conrols. NGO have extensive networks of contacts from their current and former operations (including said new independent reporters), and still play a major role in getting the information to western media. But a few decades ago, the catholic church was the main channel: the local priest got a letter send to the bishop, the bishop to the archbishop, the archbishop to the Vatican, and the Vatican to catholic newspaper worldwide. It would probably work just as well in Italy.

Sengir

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« Reply #72 on: <11-02-12/1555:14> »
Actually its 4 dead americans, one an ambasssador(which we havent lost since Carter, ironically), and the story parroted out is reaction to a movie did it and most of the press isnt investigating or going along with it. Meanwhile turns out they watched it in real time with drones, and aid was requested and denied over the hours battle.....
That was Libya. And replace "turns out" with "one outlet claims that"

Mirikon

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« Reply #73 on: <11-02-12/1742:38> »
....they would have to sacrifice all the assets in GeMiTo to do it. And either way, they have to deal with not only a PR nightmare (whenever WMD are used in populated areas, it is a PR nightmare), but the fact that taking out a Great Dragon very likely would antagonize the other dragons even more. And it is VERY doubtful that metahumans could win an all-out war on dragonkind.

Now Im confused. Allowing drgons to eat tens of thousands of people in the GeMiTo area in last six months is something normal people are not even aware of, but using the WMD on the same area would be PR nightmare. Hell I think youve outmaneuvered yourself a bit...
No, because the aftereffects are different, Sichr. Dragon snatches someone, there's maybe witnesses saying that someone got taken. Thor gets deployed, and there is a large area that is simply VAPORIZED. The only reason the hit on Artie boy wasn't big news is because it got swept under the rug with a little thing called Crash 2.0. The only reason Ares nuking Chicago wasn't a bigger thing is because the ward the bugs put up contained the blast. We are talking weapons that make people rewrite maps, and are very, very visible in their use. Impact craters are a LOT harder to cover up than eyewitness reports of dragon attacks. Eyewitnesses are inherently unreliable, and in feral zones, who knows what brainbenders or other substance abuse issues they might have? Discrediting eyewitnesses is easy when you control the media. Discrediting the fact that a section of town is now a smoking crater is not.
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Nath

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« Reply #74 on: <11-02-12/1801:26> »
Such a crater wouldn't actually be that hard to cover up. Blame a drug lab or the theft of an unmarked truck transporting unstable chemicals.

 

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