[AutumnBriarwolf]

This will be my first time playing Shadowrun and the character I decided to work on was a knives/pistols focused Adept assassin. Posting what i have so far, any critiques or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Note I havent really done equipment yet so that will be missing. At the moment his storyline is an ex-cop.


Nathaniel "Knives" Wolfe
Human Adept

Body: 5
Agility: 4
Reaction: 4
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 4
Logic: 2
Willpower: 2
Edge: 2
Magic: 6
Initiative: 8
Essence: 6

Qualities (positive):
Ambidextrous
Night Vision
Black Market Pipeline
Erased
Adept

Qualities (negative):
SINner
Uncouth
Addiction, moderate (cigarettes)

Powers:
Quick Draw
Inertia Strike
Mystic Armor Lv. 2
Astral Perception
Improved Reflexes Lv. 2

Skills:
Stealth Group 3
Athletics Group 2
Dodge 5
Blades (Knives) 4
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) 4
Perception 4

Contacts:
L:2 C:4 (Hacker)
L:3 C:3 (Undercover Black Market Dealer)



Come on, any help at all. No one?

[Glyph]

Attributes:
I would find a way to get his Willpower up to at least 3.  His biggest problem is that without anything to boost his Attributes, his dice pools will be pretty middling for a combat-oriented character.  I don't think it's worth it to spend the 25 points to hard-max your magic to start with.

Qualities:
The uncouth flaw and no social skills is crippling - this guy is treated as unaware for all social skills, and doesn't get to roll to resist them.  This means, in effect, that nearly anyone can lie to him, order him around, or intimidate him.  Uncouth is one of those "trap" options in the rules.  I can see what they wanted to do with it by looking at the description, and the archetypes they gave it to (two muscle types, and an aspergerin' nerd hacker).  But the way the social skill rules actually work, this is a very poor option, one that can make a character almost unplayable.  Plus, flavor-wise, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in conjunction with the black market pipeline quality.  It really doesn't go well with the SINner flaw, either, in the sense that both are bad, but the combination of the two is even worse.  Night vision is not worth it.  5 points, for what you could get with 0.25 points of adept powers or a pair of contacts.

Powers:
Astral perception without the assensing or astral combat skills is kind of a waste of a power point - I would drop Magic to 5, and lose this power.  Improved reflexes is fine.  Mystic armor is good, although in my opinion, combat sense is better.  Quick draw is okay.  Inertia strike is not that great.  I would probably replace it with attribute/Agility boost at rating: 1, and improved physical sense: low-light vision (replacing the positive quality).

Note: you will get advice that having a bit of bioware is a more optimal way to build an adept.  I agree, but I won't get into that now.

Skills:
I would have either the athletics skill group or dodge, not both.  You have a melee skill to defend with in melee, and gymnastics (part of the athletics skill group) for ranged defense.  That doesn't leave anything useful for dodge to do.  I would improve his skills for guns and knives, since combat seems to be his primary focus.  You can have one 6 or two 5's at character creation, and there is usually no reason not to do so.  I would get some minimal social skills - the influence skill group at rating: 1, for example.

Contacts:
These look okay.

[emsquared]

I'm not too experienced with building melee adepts, so this may not be of much use but:

You have inertia strike, but no unarmed skill... doesn't that defeat the purpose?
Drop Quick Draw, AND don't hard max your MAG. Instead, pick up Krav Maga, it let's you ready a weapon as a free action (yes, just pistols), but you'll get another "advantage" thing from it too (I'm not crazy about Quick Draw but if you have a specific plan for why you'll use it a lot, then go for it - but still get a Martial Art if melee is a focus for you). From a fluff perspective, Krav Maga is a very standard martial art that is taught to LEOs.
As Glyph said, get rid of Astral Perception, you can't do anything with it right now.
I think people will also tell you to get rid of the Mystic Armor, replace it with Combat Sense (same bonus, both help you degrade damage, but Sense let's you avoid it totally (no soak to Stun) and gives you initiative too). I've never gotten Mystic Armor so I really don't know if the lessened PP is worth it.
With the BP from your dropped MAG, maybe increase another attribute or two, or round out skills?
Also, get rid of Night Vision for the love of Zorgo! You can replicate this with a few hundred Y and contacts or glasses.
Also, I don't feel like Black Market Pipeline is worth 10BP (as it's effects could mostly be replicated during gameplay through RP), but YMMV.

Are you allowed to take an Adept Way? You may want to consider asking your GM if you can take a (or multiple) Geas under Street Magic's optional rule (-25% to Power cost for every power under a Geas).

[AutumnBriarwolf]

Alrighty, I worked with it a bit but i seem to be having trouble getting my skills up without throwing something under the bus to keep the Attributes BP at 200. With Krav Maga I chose Ready Weapon and Take Aim as a Free Action advantages with the Off-Hand Training and Two Weapon Style Maneuvers. And I decided to keep Astral Perception and just add Assensing due to my GMs hints at its necessity. haha


Body: 5
Agility: 4
Reaction: 4
Strength: 5
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 3
Logic: 2
Willpower: 3
Edge: 2
Magic: 5
Initiative: 7
Essence: 6

Qualities (positive):
Ambidextrous
Martial Arts 2 (Krav Maga)
Sensei
Erased
Adept

Qualities (negative):
Allergy moderate
Distinctive Style 3
Addiction, moderate (cigarettes)

Powers:
Astral Perception
Improved Reflexes Lv. 2
Combat Sense Lv. 2

Skills:
English N
Japanese 4
Area Knowledge 2
Black Market 2
Stealth Group 4
Dodge 5
Blades (Knives) 6
Pistols (Semi-Automatics) 6
Perception 4
Assensing 3

[emsquared]

A couple of things if you are looking to free up some points for skills:

1. How do you feel about meta-humanity? From a crunch aspect, with your STR and BOD focus, you could have a more effective build if you're an ork or a troll. For instance an ork with your same stats presently, would only be dropping 140(!)BP on attributes vs. your human's 200... So, if you go ork, you could have better attributes (40 more BP to your core or peripheral attributes) and still only drop 180BP on them, leaving another 20 for skills. If your char. is a human though and that's the only way you see him, then there's still a couple of things to nickle and dime...

2. I don't think you had made the edit to your post, showing your level of commitment to dual-wielding when I started my post, so I have removed this suggestion

3. You could drop the specializations, for now. Specializations cost the same "now" (at char-gen, BP:Karma) as they do in play. However, higher skill levels (2+) are a bargain now at 4 BP. And sure you only have 2 specs so you'd only be netting 1 base skill point, but if you can free up some more BP elsewhere, this could help.

4. And of course, there's money, buy up the necessities of your gear (tricked out earbuds, contacts, glasses, armor, guns, blades, commlink, etc.), and drop the rest in skills. How much do you have set aside and how much are you gonna actually use? As an adept you shouldn't need a whole lot, especially if you're staying "pure". If you're buying 'ware, you could probably use as much Y as you can get.

Which brings me to my next point: you should probably buy some 'ware for yourself. A couple levels of muscle toner will give you better pistol and blades pools than a large investment of Power Points, and if you do that, you're gonna have some left over ESS to utilize so a Reflex Recorder or 2 could give you a "cheap" boost, there's muscle augmentation if you wanted more damage, protein and genetic enhancers, all kinds of fun things that will get you some good "bang for your buck" with that 1 ESS/MAG.

If your GM allows you to use an Adept Way, and Geas', you probably don't need to use more than 1 essence in 'ware. If he won't allow either of those things, he's mean.

Of course, all of this is for optimal effectiveness, as we don't know anything about your concept. If you have a concept you want to adhere to, then heed only the appropriate parts.

[UmaroVI]

Those two Krav Maga advantages don't play nice. You only get one free action - you can either Ready or Take Aim with it. I would suggest either having just Ready Weapon as a free action, or just having Take Aim as a free action and taking the Iaijutsu manuever (which requires a roll, but is part of the attack rather than a Free Action).

[JustADude]

Those two Krav Maga advantages don't play nice. You only get one free action - you can either Ready or Take Aim with it. I would suggest either having just Ready Weapon as a free action, or just having Take Aim as a free action and taking the Iaijutsu manuever (which requires a roll, but is part of the attack rather than a Free Action).

Well, once you have your weapon Readied, you can use your Free Actions on your other IPs to do the free Take Aim.

[AutumnBriarwolf]

@emsquared

As of right now (my character has been through some pretty dramatic changes in the weeks of building) i want him to be specialized in blades for stealth attacks and getting in close and pistols for when he gets into trouble. Wanting him to be as silent, fast and effecient a killer as i can make him. Was really wanting to go human but if Orc is my only way to get a good build i may consider it as that isnt the first time its been suggested. Same for 'ware. Going to show my newbiness here but Im not clear on what exactly "Way" and "Geas" are. Ive seen the terms on the forum a few times but havent run across them in my reading of the books. Equipment I would like to have (havent run all this down with my GM yet) would include things for picking locks/copying keycards, a pistol arm slide, and a chameleon suit eventually. That sort of stuff. Which specializations were you referring to specifically? Oh and from what i read inertia strike is melee AND unarmed, but the program Im using to build isnt flawless so it could be wrong there.

[UmaroVI]

Okay, that does change things.

Ways refers to Way of the Adept. It's a Shadowrun Options line (meaning the rules in it are optional), so your GM may not allow it. It is basically Adepts: The Buffening and provides adepts with some much-needed power boost. The way it works is you can pay 10 BP to get a Way, which is sorta like an adept tradition. It gives you a discount on some powers, some minor metamagic benefits, and a special adept power you can only have as a member of that way. It's a good book and I do recommend it. Can you check if your GM allows it?

Gaesa let you put a restriction on one or more adept powers in return for a 25% discount. Some GMs will allow bullshit like "not while using weapons I didn't want to use anyways," some will not. It's also an optional rule so your GM may not allow it in the first place.

Ork just straight-up is a better choice for this than human. Troll vs. Ork is debatable; Troll will save you points while making you tougher and better at melee, but you'll lose a bit of stealth and ranged combat skill. Depending on what you want to focus on, Troll might very well be a better choice. Fomori (a troll metavariant from Runner's Companion) is also a good option, although they have the drawback of being more distinctive and some GMs don't like them. All three are reasonable choices and a better idea than human.

Are you willing to install a small amount of 'ware?

In terms of your priorities:
How much do you value stealth vs. being good at "fair" melee combat?
It looks like you more want a ranged weapon as an emergency backup. How sure are you that you want pistols? You might be better off with a weapon category that has some longer-range options. Pistols are concealable, but so are knives.

Weapon foci are pro. You may, however, want to hold off on having one until later, because you can get a better one later on. Alternatively, you might want to get a Ceramic Knife weapon focus at rating 1 now, and save up your piggy bank for a rating 6 weapon focus of a different type; the rating 1 weapon focus stays useful forever, because it bypasses ITNW and you can sneak it anywhere. Good choices for the rating 6 weapon focus are Ceramic Knife (in which case, don't start with any weapon foci; pro: most concealable, con: least damage), Victorinox SmartStaff (middle of the road), or Vibroblade Sword (not very concealable, great damage, and F).

[AutumnBriarwolf]

Was going with the pistol for concealment reasons. Have it on that arm slide. I had wanted to go snipers but all the good guns are F and the decent ones are all R so I dropped that idea. I had already decided to go with the ceramic knives funny enough, as the ones i wanted were R as well. Forget the name of them at the moment. Im not /totally/ against 'ware, i just dont want to take a huge hit to my essence. I will ask about the Ways and all that next time i see my GM for sure though. As for the stealth v. fair melee. I really wanted him to be very capable in combat so I guess the short end of the stick would unfortunately have to fall on the stealth side, though i did want him to be able to sneak up from behind and get the drop on targets or sneak passed them altogether. But i do see what youre saying with the ranged weapons. A semi-auto rifle would probably be the better option there, huh?

[emsquared]

@emsquared

As of right now (my character has been through some pretty dramatic changes in the weeks of building) i want him to be specialized in blades for stealth attacks and getting in close and pistols for when he gets into trouble. Wanting him to be as silent, fast and effecient a killer as i can make him. Was really wanting to go human but if Orc is my only way to get a good build i may consider it as that isnt the first time its been suggested. Same for 'ware. Going to show my newbiness here but Im not clear on what exactly "Way" and "Geas" are. Ive seen the terms on the forum a few times but havent run across them in my reading of the books. Equipment I would like to have (havent run all this down with my GM yet) would include things for picking locks/copying keycards, a pistol arm slide, and a chameleon suit eventually. That sort of stuff. Which specializations were you referring to specifically? Oh and from what i read inertia strike is melee AND unarmed, but the program Im using to build isnt flawless so it could be wrong there.

If you stay human, IMHO you really really need to take 1 point of ESS/MAG loss in 'ware if you want to be the bad-ass in combat that you envision. If you go ork, I'd still suggest taking the 1 point ESS/MAG hit, because you will be significantly better for it, than what that 1 MAG in Power Points could ever do for you. The lock-picking stuff is no problem (auto-picker), but to copy keycards you need to have the Hardware skill ... which if you want to go with a breaking and entering skill-set, you'll want anyway. The specializations I was referring to were the Knives and Semi-Auto skill specializations on your Blades and Pistols base skills - dropping these specs would really just be for if you're trying to squeeze every last drop of available BP for skills (which if you go ork, you won't really have to do)... RE: inertia strike, you're absolutely right, like I said, I've never done the melee adept thing and was wrong about that, sorry about that.

I would like to expand on Umaro's cold description of Geasa. What you'd do is, under the optional rule (Street Magic p.31 - Tweaking the Rules Box, under "Adpets and Geasa" ), you would pick a Geas, or multiple Geasa, following the description(s) of the Negative Quality of the same name (SM p.27). However you would not get any BP for it (under the optional rule, it is no longer a Neg Quality, just an option you can take), instead, for every Power you apply a Geas to, you would get 25% off of it's Power Point cost. You could have a different Geas for each Power, or all Powers under one Geas - however, of course, if you can't meet the conditions of the Geas, you can't use the associated Power(s). This may sound horrible but it's totally worth it, if you can arrive at a Geas(a) with your GM that makes you vulnerable (because that's the point of taking one), but not completely gimped. You can combine Geasa and an Adept's Way for a potential of 50%(!) off of your Power Point costs for some abilities. The wisdom in taking a Geas kind of depends on your GM. It depends on his attitude towards Adepts (does he feel that their "long-term development" strategy is adequate reward for their tremendous vanilla weakness at char-gen, and therefore, will he let you use either or both of these optional rules?) and is he vindictive (will he exploit your Geasa at every chance to cripple you)? If he's the vindictive type, taking a Geas may cause you more stress than relief.

[UmaroVI]

The other options would be:

Heavy Weapons: the highlights are Assault Cannons, which aren't silencable but are otherwise good at "sniping," machine guns which are good when you can't be subtle, and the ArmTech MGL-6 which is a concealable grenade launcher.

Automatics: Machine Pistols are OK concealable weapons, Battle Rifles are OK for sniping and superb for long-range fire support.

Longarms: The T-250 is a sawed-off shotgun that is concealable, albeit kinda bad. Sniper rifles are obviously for sniping, but the good one (the Barrett) you'd want to wait and pick up with your first paycheck. Sporting rifles are eh alright, but not as good as assault rifles and just as restricted.

Just sticking with pistols will get you better concealability - I'm just not sure it's worth if you are already going to be using ceramic knives.

The core way to win melee fights as a Blades user is to have martial arts that give +Blades, and the manuevers Two-Weapon Style and Offhand Training. Combined with Improved Ability (blades) this lets you beat almost anyone who is willing to engage in melee with you.

Depending on whether or not ways are an option, it greatly affects what adept powers you'd want and how much 'ware you'd want (1 point vs. 2 points).

[usefulidiot]

Another thing on negative qualities, nicotine can not be used as an addiction, unless your gm allows it.

[AutumnBriarwolf]

He does. I asked. XP Okay, when I get back on my laptop to make these much appreciated suggestions of changes I will get back to you guys on how its looking. Thanks again.

EDIT: Both Skill Focus and Weapon Focus were mentioned for the blades. Same thing or different? If different which should I do?

[emsquared]

I no longer have my supplement books to reference (my friend who loaned them needed them back - which is also why the confusion for me regarding inertia strike - again sorry about that), only my core rulebook, but if you don't like the idea of being an orc, I think there are PosiQualities to at least make you appear more human... or surgery (ESS loss) which may or may not be more cost-effective?