[fitzink84]

 Are these NPCs too tough or not tough enough in your opinion?

so the group I am co-GMing for is pretty tough, some could say broken though the verdict is still out on that. There are quite a few newbs in the party and most went with meat characters. they mop the floor with starting grunts and honestly long combats with a lot of combatants are boring. To make combat challenging the next game session they will be facing a few beefed up gangers guarding a stash of zen. There is probably 60k ¥ worth of brain-benders in the zen house under their protection which is why they are so tough (put your toughest guys on the big stash). the players will be able to sell it to a fixer for 1/2 that, which breaks down into 5k per player. the characters are new (3 sessions so far) )so think 400 bp power gamers.

Note that some of the notes are intended for the other GM. that may make this less WTF?

Sledge the Troll,
 A scary looking mother fucker. He has obvious dermal plating , his face is covered in ritual scarification. His friends call him “Sledge”
B 9, A 4, R 4, S 9, C 2, I 3, L 2, W 2  Edge 2
Applicable Skills, Exotic weapon (Sledge hammer) 4,   Dodge 3, Longarms (sawed off shotguns) 2  (4) Unarmed 2,
Cyberware: wired reflexes rtg 2 (second hand), datajack, Dermal plating 2
Weapons: Sledge hammer (str/2 + 3 p),  sawed off shotty (double barrel side by side) (7 p dam), Hardliner Gloves (sr4 brass knucks) (str/2 +1 p)
Armor: Armored Vest (6/4), Dermal deposits (1/1),Dermal plating (2/2)
Other equipment: 150 ¥ certified cred stick, metalink com link, sim mod hot, BTL chips x 4, picture of kids, 2 condoms, Criminal SIN, 4 rounds of 00 buck, mag key, key to bike
COMBAT STATS
Initiative: 7  Initiative passes:  3
Attack: 8 for sledge or shotty, 6 for brass knucks
Dam: Sledge 7p, Shotty 5p, knucks 5 p
Armor pen: shotty  + 5, can hit up to 3 people within 1 m of each other, -4 to defense roll
Melee Dodge: 7       Melee Parry: 8       Ranged Dodge: 4
Armor total: 9 ballistic/7 impact
Damage soak dicepool:  18 ballistic, 16 impact
Physical      Stun               
OOO-1         OOO-1
OOO-2         OOO-2
OOO-3         OOO-3
OOO-4               
O-5         
Sledge will start combat by firing his double barreled shotgun, he will fire both rounds and move in for melee combat with his hammer on the next initiative pass. He will not need to take a draw weapon action for either weapon unless he is surprised.  Shotty has perm wide spread when using buck

Red the Orc,
An orc with a total body dye in… you guessed it red
B 6, A 3, R 3, S 6, C 3, I 4, L 3, W 3  Edge 1
Applicable Skills, Pistols  3,  Dodge 3, longarms  3, Unarmed 2,
Cyberware Data jack, Cyber hand (left), 
Weapons:  Remmington 990 external smartlink , reduced barrel, removed stock and forward grip, Colt asp 6 shooter (4p)
Armor:  Bike Racing armor (4 ballistic/ 7 impact)
Other equipment: 79 ¥ certified cred stick, MCT clip com link, sim mod, 6 doses of novacoke, AR goggles with smartlink, belt with 10 extra rounds for 990 (slug) , one extra mag for pred (15 rounds), key to bike
COMBAT STATS
Initiative: 7  Initiative passes:  1
Attack: 8 for shotty first shot, 7 for secondshot,  6 for colt, 5 for unarmed.  (one point recoil comp on Remington)
Dam: Shotgun: 7p,  Colt: 4p, Unarmed: 3S
Armor pen: -1 for shotgun, nil for others
Melee Dodge: 6       Melee Parry: 3 (nil?)       Ranged Dodge: 3
Armor total: 4 ballistic/ 7 Impact
Damage soak dicepool:  10 ballistic, 13 impact
Physical      Stun               
OOO-1         OOO-1
OOO-2         OOO-2
OOO-3         OOO-3
OO-4         O-4
Red starts from the kitchen area, and will not use cover as he is high as a kite (not modding character just RP it)


Max the dwarf,
Shaved head, shaved face, covered in tattoos and piercings
B 6, A 3, R 4, S 4, C 3, I 4, L 3, W 3  Edge 1
Applicable Skills, Pistols  3,  Dodge 3, Longarms 3, blades 2,
Cyberware Data jack, wired reflexes 1 (second hand), 
Weapons:  Defiance T-250 shotgun (sawed off, dwarf customization, laser sight 7p) Combat Knife(3p)
Armor:  armored jacket (8/6)
Other equipment: 15 rounds of 00 buck, metalink, wallet with criminal sin and credstick worth 200 ¥, deep weed (3 doses) Mag key, actual key, key to motorcycle
COMBAT STATS 
Initiative: 8  Initiative passes:  2
Attack: 7 first shot, 5 second shot (because recoil is doubled for shotties)
Dam:   shotty: 7p, knife 3p
Armor pen: +1 to armor -2 to defensive rolls can hit 2 people within 1 M of each other
Melee Dodge: 7       Melee Parry:6         Ranged Dodge: 4
Armor total: 8 ballistic/ 6 Impact
Damage soak dicepool:  14 ballistic, 12 impact
Physical      Stun               
OOO-1         OOO-1
OOO-2         OOO-2
OOO-3         OOO-3
OO-4         O-4
Max will stick to his shotty, Its good for 6 shots (5 in the internal magazine + 1 in the chamber) though he has more rounds in his jacket pocket unless he can safely load it he will drop it, pull his knife and go Friday the 13th on a motherfucker. Shotgun has permanent medium spread if using buck.


Terry the dwarf,
Max’s twin
B 6, A 3, R 4, S 4, C 3, I 4, L 3, W 3  Edge 1
Applicable Skills, Pistols  3,  Dodge 3, Longarms 3, blades 2,
Cyberware Data jack, wired reflexes 1, 
Weapons:  Defiance T-250 shotgun (sawed off, dwarf customization, laser sight 7p) Combat Knife(3p)
Armor:  armored jacket (8/6)
Other equipment: credstick with 100 ¥, 10 rounds of 00 buck, gold ring worth 150¥, half eaten nutrasoy bar, 40 oz of OE , key to bike,
COMBAT STATS 
Initiative: 8  Initiative passes:  2
Attack: 7 first shot, 5 second shot (because recoil is doubled for shotties)
Dam:   shotty: 7p, knife 3p
Armor pen: : +1 to armor -2 to defensive rolls can hit 2 people within 1 M of each other
Melee Dodge: 7       Melee Parry:6         Ranged Dodge: 4
Armor total: 8 ballistic/ 6 Impact
Damage soak dicepool:  14 ballistic, 12 impact
Physical      Stun               
OOO-1         OOO-1
OOO-2         OOO-2
OOO-3         OOO-3
OO-4         O-4
terry will stick to his shotty, Its good for 6 shots (5 in the internal magazine + 1 in the chamber) though he has more rounds in his jacket pocket unless he can safely load it he will drop it, pull his knife and go Friday the 13th on a motherfucker. Shotty has perm medium spread if using buck.


Spike the Doberman,
This security drone looks to be around 15 or 20 years old. It has obviously been modded by someone who has little care for finesse. It has armor sloppily welded to its frame, menacing spikes all over it and a slapdash paintjob of red black and yellow. It’s weapon mount is jury rigged and holds a menacing looking shotgun 
Pilot 2, Acceleration  5/15, Speed 60, Body 4, Armor 8, Sensor 2
System 2, response 2, firewall 2, signal 2
Applicable Skills, clearsight autosoft 2, Targeting autosoft 2, Safefire autosoft
Mods: Armor, custom look, old tech
Weapons:  Protecta shotgun, 7p, -1 ap, 12 round drum (spare drum in garage)
Armor:  improvised steel plating
COMBAT STATS
Initiative: 4  Initiative passes:  3
Attack: 7 first shot
Dam:   shotty: 7p,
Armor pen: -1 for shotty,
Melee Dodge: nil       Melee Parry:nil         Ranged Dodge: nil
Armor total: 8/8
Damage soak dicepool:  14 ballistic, 12 impact
Physical                  
OOO-1         
OOO-2         
OOO-3         
O-4         
Spike is an old drone with junky outdated software and an old drum fed shotgun (circa 1999 and in pretty good condition, worth 4000 ¥ if sold to a collector). His safe target system will stop him from shooting the gangers but he will still shoot the prostitutes. The shotgun is semi auto with a 12 round drum, so it will last 2 combat rounds, the weapon mount provides enough recoil comp to negate recoil. It fired by an PC the folding stock and forward grip also provide enough recoil comp to negate recoil. Range is

[fitzink84]

Micro the Minotuar,
 Micro is anything but. The younger brother of bloodbath, he is a badass and as such is given the important tasks, like guarding several thousand ¥ worth of Zen
B 9, A 4, R 5, S 10, C 3, I 3, L 2, W 2  Edge 2
Applicable Skills, blades  4(katar 6), Dodge 3, Automatics 2 Unarmed 4,
Cyberware wired reflexes rtg 2, datajack, Dermal plating 3, titanium bone lacing,
Weapons: Vibro Katar (str/2 + 4 p)
Armor: Bike racing armor (4/7), Dermal deposits (1/1),Dermal plating (3/3) bone lacing (1/1)
Other equipment: 150 ¥ certified cred stick, metalink com link, sim mod hot, BTL chips x 4, picture of kids, 2 condoms, Criminal SIN
COMBAT STATS
Initiative: 8  Initiative passes:  3
Attack: 10 katar, 8 unarmed
Dam: Vibro Katar: 9p,  fists: 7p
Armor pen: VibroKatar -4 vs  Impact, fists: 0
Melee Dodge: 8       Melee Parry: 11    Ranged Dodge: 5
Armor total: 9 ballistic, 12 impact
Damage soak dicepool:  16 ballistic, 19 impact
Physical      Stun               
OOO-1         OOO-1
OOO-2         OOO-2
OOO-3         OOO-3
OOO-4               
O-5         
This mean bastard likes to cut people up with a vibro katar. He has an Ares Predator but figures in the confined space of the basement he’s better off with a melee weapon.

[emsquared]

So, when you say "Attack: 10 katar" or "Attack: 7 first shot, 5 second shot", that 10 or 7, etc. is the total dice pool that NPC is rolling? That's not tough in my book, because you combine those abysmal attack pools with the poor armoring (my 3 BOD Face has better B/I than your 9 BOD Troll...), and they will probably walk right over these guys too. This is assuming your "power gaming, meat" PCs have Initiatives of 10+ with 3 IPs, FFFBA, PPP i.e. filled out encumbrance, and primary attack pools of 15+ (i.e. a standard primary combatant and my table)...

Because, as currently statted, assuming your PCs are outfitted roughly as above, your NPCs are most likely all going to get beat in Initiative, and then they're going to be dealing with some (severe to dead) penalties when they shoot back - with piss poor starting pools. Up 1 or 2 of the baddies Initiatives so they  mix it up with your fastest PCs, help out all of their armor, and find ~3 more dice for each attack pool I'd say.

[fitzink84]

So, when you say "Attack: 10 katar" or "Attack: 7 first shot, 5 second shot", that 10 or 7, etc. is the total dice pool that NPC is rolling?...... This is assuming your "power gaming, meat" PCs have Initiatives of 10+ with 3 IPs, FFFBA, PPP i.e. filled out encumbrance, and primary attack pools of 15+ (i.e. a standard primary combatant and my table)...

Because, as currently statted, assuming your PCs are outfitted roughly as above, your NPCs are most likely all going to get beat in Initiative, and then they're going to be dealing with some (severe to dead) penalties when they shoot back - with piss poor starting pools. Up 1 or 2 of the baddies Initiatives so they  mix it up with your fastest PCs, help out all of their armor, and find ~3 more dice for each attack pool I'd say.

as far as your frist question is concerned, yes those are dice pools. Good call on the initiative, most of them would be at an extreme disadvantage by the time the second round came around.

so more initiative passes and a higher weapon skill rating? and scale it down without player knowledge if they turn out to be too lethal? keep in mind these are starting characters with 400 BP. though they are a bit beefy.

[Shadowjack]

I think they should be high on cram when the pc's arrive. It's a cheap way to buff npcs and it makes sense that gangers would have some.

[SkullLord]

I like your NPCs and I agree with emsqured and Shaodowjack about a bit of a general combat boost, armor, and more IPs for NPCs [edge, drugs, cyber, magic].

Slow combat

1)  In the future, don't take on more than one newbie at a time.
2)  Maybe the GM and the newbies could run a quick mock combat before the game begins.
3)  Newbies may only use the core rule book, no exceptions no matter how much fluff would be added.
4)  Everyone should have a relevant cheat sheet in front of them.

NPCs

1)  Everyone has at least one edge.  I use my NPC's individual edge pool, goons' group edge, and their lieutenant's edge pool with a passion.  Don't hesitate to use edge on the first attack roll of combat. 

2)  Use electrical damage.  Even if a few players have non conductivity on their armor, some won't.  Remember that after you take electrical damage you have to roll to be knocked out.   Use fire damage.  Same as above for the armor, but their equipment?  Aim for the runner with the most bullets or maybe a certain runner who has a bandoleer of grenades.  Use more flash packs and light modifiers.  These give the receiving target(s) a huge penalty up front.  Absolute darkness and/or thermal smoke grenades do wonders against  shooters.  Gangers with ultra sound however...

3)  Lastly, if all else fails and you get smoked like a fool yet again, make them fight their own shadow characters with ganger fluff and don't tell them.  If they complain, give them their sheets and let them figure out it's their characters' attributes/skills/spells/drones/programs/etc.