[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

And in my own never-humble opinion, a shadowrunner should select Automatics as a distant third.  Pistols for most work, shotguns for really nasty and/or specialized stuff, sporting or sniper rifles for the long work, and only then should they be getting into the dakka-dakka.  Automatics, whether that's SMGs or ARs or (god help you) machine-guns, are for war, whether that's street or straight-up merc stuff.

But again, that's my own never-humble opinion.  Only once in my entire SR career did I pause and say, "I wish I had an assault rifle and the skill to use it."  That was during what was basically an amphibious assault, and the enemy was out past 200m range.  Otherwise, even the worst incidents needed nothing more than a well-placed pistol shot or two.  (Rarely two.)

[Aryeonos]

You run some pretty gentle work Wyrm. But then again my last run was against other runners (actual other players that didn't know we were running against them, within their run.) and I only fired one one shot. But, also we had to use allot of other gear like gas grenades, allot of hacking, and a drone armed with gel rounds and an automatic shotgun, which did get used. I'm going to stand by putting MPs in with pistols and Battle rifles with long arms though, because that's what they are and those are the roles they should be in. But as I've said earlier, I'd like to see actual play testing instead just our conjecture; because as I've learned, really surprising things can crop up that was way out of what we speculated would happen.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

You run some pretty gentle work Wyrm. But then again my last run was against other runners (actual other players that didn't know we were running against them, within their run.) and I only fired one one shot. But, also we had to use allot of other gear like gas grenades, allot of hacking, and a drone armed with gel rounds and an automatic shotgun, which did get used. I'm going to stand by putting MPs in with pistols and Battle rifles with long arms though, because that's what they are and those are the roles they should be in. But as I've said earlier, I'd like to see actual play testing instead just our conjecture; because as I've learned, really surprising things can crop up that was way out of what we speculated would happen.

*laughs*  No, no, I don't.  In the session set off which Pananagutan is based, I racked up literally five times as many kills of the toxic shapeshifters as all the other PCs and the 20 mercs - combined - using a Hammerli 610S (loading DMSO + Gamma-Scopalomine) and a katana.  In other adventures, the character took out first one, then several heavy weapon emplacements (and AR-using Aztlan soldiers) using only the katana.  When I play, I play a precisionist.  I choose the right tool for the job.  If it required high explosives, grenades, heavy firepower, I would have used that; that's the same character who really wished she'd had an assault rifle to engage the 100-200m-distant opposition during the inflatable run into the beach.  But in an urban situation, the only times you would really need an SMG is during a car chase (during which I prefer one or two AV rounds from an HP) or if you're trying to mow down dozens of mooks at once - and they have grenades for that sort of thing.

[Aryeonos]

Or when you're in that street fight that got a little out of control and you need suppressing fire, or you're trying to hit that weaving target and a distance and need to drop their defense to practically nothing to score a hit or two. But yeah, precision counts for something, like when my husband nut-checked two ghouls to death with his raptor cyberlegs, and his partner sliced the other three up with his katana.

But yeah, ARs and Carbines are for Corpsec and military (Guards). The Ingram Smartgun X, or the Izom RP-71, or Onotari Equalizer, are usually all you need as a runner for those situations. But then again I've been known to use a Praetor P-93 with chameleon coating, and camera neutralizers.

For most PCs though a Skill of 1 in automatics and a specialization in a type of automatic (Usually MPs or SMGs) will get you through most street level campaigns that don't get too serious.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Putting two-an-action down for the count is suppressive enough for me.  And if the target is weaving and at a considerable range, well - that's why the rigger has aerodrones with automatic weapons.    I'll agree that Automatics (SMGs) is a good general idea.

Shadowtalk for the Ares Crusader Machine Pistol, the first in the game:

"Wonderful.  Now I can flatten light ammo against body armor faster than ever before."
-- Steel Lynx <22:18:01/12-16-50>

[CanRay]

"Wonderful.  Now I can flatten light ammo against body armor faster than ever before."
-- Steel Lynx <22:18:01/12-16-50>

And that was before armor got insanely popular with everyone.

Machine Pistols used to be great to give to Gangers who were threatening civvies who MIGHT have armored clothing.  Maybe.  Possibly.

Not likely.

[Aryeonos]

Oh hey, I didn't know there was a runner named Steel Lynx, it's a good thing I went with an alternative name for my runner.

[CanRay]

Oh hey, I didn't know there was a runner named Steel Lynx, it's a good thing I went with an alternative name for my runner.

And he was LIVID when the Steel Lynx Drone came out!

[Aryeonos]

Are the Steel Lynx drones that Gatling Mounted Fuchikoma looking thing on Pg. 96 of SR4A? Or are they actual mechanical lynxes? Because that's how I treated them the first time I GMed a big campaign.

[CanRay]

Are the Steel Lynx drones that Gatling Mounted Fuchikoma looking thing on Pg. 96 of SR4A? Or are they actual mechanical lynxes? Because that's how I treated them the first time I GMed a big campaign.

http://www.gods-inc.de/macavity/IsleOfShadows/vehicles/lynx.jpg

[Aryeonos]

Ah, okay, I suppose the MTC Dobermans are the same as well then?

[RHat]

And according to the new dev blog, they're adding Accuracy to weapons.

[Mirikon]

And according to the new dev blog, they're adding Accuracy to weapons.

Which should probably put a big hit on the majority of the Automatics group. Wonder how BF and FA affect the accuracy rating. If, for example, a narrow burst increases Accuracy, while a wide burst decreases it, in addition to the normal effects, that would make things interesting.

[RHat]

And according to the new dev blog, they're adding Accuracy to weapons.

Which should probably put a big hit on the majority of the Automatics group. Wonder how BF and FA affect the accuracy rating. If, for example, a narrow burst increases Accuracy, while a wide burst decreases it, in addition to the normal effects, that would make things interesting.

Seems more likely to me that they'd apply an Accuracy hit on all Long and Full Bursts, such that while narrow bursts more difficult to get on target, if you can land it it's worth it - giving these methods of firing a way around the damage cap that Accuracy would impose, but increasing the difficulty of their use.  On the wide burst side, the value of the defense penalty would become somewhat diminished, but not terribly so.

Wonder if they're going to change Called Shots to provide synergy with the new system - IE, more accurate weapons are more suited to Called Shots.

[Aryeonos]

Didn't wide and narrow bursts already simulate accuracy? Wasn't that the point?