Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: DamienHollow on <01-05-13/0145:48>
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Okay, so this isn't entirely undetectable. But i turned this out for a 14 year old street-sammy and want to see if it checks out.
Ballistic flights are one of the hardest places to get a weapon. Jet Set describes security in and around such flights, Chemical sniffers, MAD sensors, Cyberware scans, and pat downs are all included. You even have to surrender your Com-link. Any implants considered too dangerous are either shut off by a hacker or you undergo voluntarily sedation. Only you, the cloths on your back, and a small personal effects bag may be taken on such flights. These flights have also proven to be one of the runners most vulnerable situations with at least one rather messy encounter defined in Jet Set. Here is how i propose to get a gun on such a flight... more for fun than anything else.
Take three ranks of restricted gear :o...
Buy the PSK-3 collapsing heavy handgun...
Buy the PSK-3 silencer (same availability as the handgun)...
buy Ceramic/Plasteel Components 3...
Buy 10 rounds of Hi-c Plastic Ammunition...
Load eight into the PSK-3 magazine, shrug and throw the other two rounds into the air...
Place the magazine in a hermetically sealed box...
Throw some points into Disguise...
Walk through security...
Laugh when you open your complementary peanuts and find the other two rounds.
Chemical sniffers 4 roll 4, and need 2 hits to detect an explosive. Having only eight rounds on you means the sniffer doesn't get the extra die for having 10 rounds of ammo. The Hermetically sealed box puts the sniffer at a 1 die penalty as does being made from plastic. This means he needs 3 hits on 3 dice to detect the ammunition (about a 1 in 27 chance.) If you apply the disguise skill to the folded pistol I'm assuming you could pass it off as all kinds of things even if they did find it. You're more concerned with them finding the ammo than the weapon, and I'm still looking for some way to reduce those chances.
For those of you who do not know, the Jet Set encounter involves someone else attempting an assassination on board. The party is completely unaware of what's going on until he springs into action unless they make some good rolls.
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Or just buy an HK Urban Fighter and a concealable holster. Much cheaper.
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Would't an SMG be hard to get through security? i know the stats on the weapon but the shear size would prove problematic.
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Would't an SMG be hard to get through security? i know the stats on the weapon but the shear size would prove problematic.
The HK Urban Fighter is a heavy pistol.
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Nope, checked Arsenal, it's on pg. 25 as a SMG.
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Nope, checked Arsenal, it's on pg. 25 as a SMG.
That's the HK Urban Combat.
The HK Urban Fighter is on page 22 (for description, the chart is page 23) and is a heavy pistol.
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... and it promptly makes all ammunition save for Regular Ammunition 13+ availability. The magazine is also ten rounds granting a +1 to the chem sniffer negating the advantage of the hermetically sealed magazines... Nice alternative though if you're going on the cheep. Most situations this would work under but I'm looking for something that can go anywhere. Also the H&K cannot be further modified, the PSK can accept mods, just not accessories.
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Regular ammo starts at 2R, so it goes to 10R for the Urban Fighter
magazines clips. It also gives a reason to use Gel Rounds. SnS goes to 13R whereas Gel goes to 12R.
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Hu... There's an error on this then... because both rule books agree with you on the availability but the builder says it's 4R... I'll have to see about correcting that. As for the gel rounds, gel rounds are never declared to have non-metallic casings. The real world equivalent, Simunitions, do. this makes you susceptible to MAD. And Hi-c aren't less lethal.
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Hu... There's an error on this then... because both rule books agree with you on the availability but the builder says it's 4R... I'll have to see about correcting that. As for the gel rounds, gel rounds are never declared to have non-metallic casings. The real world equivalent, Si munitions, do. this makes you susceptible to MAD.
Like all ammo, the extra cost and availability is for special rounds and magazines for the weapon, so it wouldn't. (And even at 4R the availability would only go to 12R which is still within the normal limit).
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... and it promptly makes all ammunition SAVE FOR Regular Ammunition 13+ availability.
And like i said, my availabilities for ammunition is off on this thing, i concede that point. But it does say that you can only by the ammunition in special prepackage sealed magazines doubling the price and adding +8 to the availability. Seeing as how you can't under load these magazines, we're still giving the Chem-sniffer a +1 to negate the Hermetic Seal penalty. We also still haven't solved the MAD scanner issue.If you reload the empty magazines you loose the hermetic seal, then again there is the box idea. Again, it's a great idea that works in most situations. But I'm looking to minimize the signature in every way possible, including direct visual assessment. But keep going, this is fun :D
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... and it promptly makes all ammunition SAVE FOR Regular Ammunition 13+ availability.
And like i said, my availabilities for ammunition is off on this thing, i concede that point. Seeing as how you can't under load these magazines, we're still giving the Chem-sniffer a +1 to negate the Hermetic Seal penalty. We also still haven't solved the MAD scanner issue. Again, it's a great idea that works in most situations. But I'm looking to minimize the signature in every way possible, including direct visual assessment. But keep going, this is fun :D
With the MAD scanner, the description does say "It also consists entirely of nonmetallic components and cannot be detected by MAD scanners.", so no matter what ammo you buy, that is still the case so long as you buy the special magazines. With a concealed holster, there's a good chance that they're not finding it without a physical contact pat down (especially if you're wearing a Lined Coat).
The Chem-sniffer, well a +1 isn't that much considering the threshold of 3. On average with the +1 it would need to be a Rating 8 Chem-sniffer to reliably manage to detect the weapon. What the heck are you doing that you'd be regularly running into Rating 8 scanners?
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Chem-sniffers (and this is from the book not the builder) have a threshold of 2 and throws 3 dice. If he throws 2 the odds are about 11%, if he throws 3 then the odds are 26%, if he rolls four its about 41%. I'm not seeing any mention of ratings for chem sniffers any where in core, But feel free to point out the page. So you're either giving a +1 to the sniffer, or reloading empty magazines with eight rounds of Hi-c Ammunition, as the ammunition would be of normal value and availability not a bad option.
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The magazines for the HK Urban Fighter are hermetically sealed. That increases the threshold to 3 (see the parentheses next to where it says threshold 2). Remember, on average you need 3 dice to equate to a single hit--this is how I got the Rating 8 scanner to reliably detect the magazines since it rolls rating and the +1.
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The table says "dice pool modifier", not "threshold modifier".
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The table says "dice pool modifier", not "threshold modifier".
Okay, here.
roll a dice pool equal to the chemsniffer’s
rating against a threshold 2 (3 if the explosives/ammo are hermetically
sealed).
Since the magazines are hermetically sealed, this makes the threshold 3, and since 3 dice roughly equals 1 hit on average this means the scanner needs 9 dice to reliable "sniff it out". This means Rating 8 with the +1 from the number of rounds to reliably detect.
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Okay, part of the issue here is I'm confusing the threshold modifier (Threshold 3 if hermetically sealed) listed in the text with the dice pool modifier on the table (-1 if encased in plastic.) Now the question is do they stack?
No that's solved lets do a short table for a rating 4 chem-sniffer
<10 rounds, Hermetically Sealed, not "in plastic", ~11%
>10 rounds, Hermetically Sealed, not "in plastic", ~21%
<10 rounds, Hermetically Sealed, in plastic, ~4%
>10 rounds, Hermetically Sealed, in plastic, ~11%
<10 rounds, not sealed, in plastic, ~26%
>10 rounds, not sealed, In plastic, ~41%
<10 rounds, nothing special, ~41%
>10 rounds, nothing special, ~54%
I think my math is right...
I am not trying to smuggle a gun that doesn't hit at least 11% on this chart anywhere we have Lone Star on standby. So that means the PSK-3 with ammo in a separate case, or the H&K with it's sealed magazine provided the modifiers stack. If the H&K could be obtained with <10 round magazines then it would be the superior gun, and I'm certain home manufacture would be allowable but don't; ask me the tests. As long as they don't find the gun itself the H&K is a comparable and cheaper option. What concerns me is the inability to modify the H&K, it's inability to hide in plain sight, the fact it does not have a Machine Pistol option. What the H&K does not say (and is to its advantage) is that the silencer is the same availability as the weapon, like the PSK-3.
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Or just buy an HK Urban Fighter and a concealable holster. Much cheaper.
And get arrested for trying to sneak a gun in to ballistic flight.
Detecting a gun is a threshold 1 test for a cyberware scanner.
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Another way to get gear onto a plane is using a diversion to have security target someone else so that you may only have to avoid the sensors and can avoid the pat downs or thorough bag searches.
There are possibilities like palming a small quantity of restricted drugs onto another passenger ahead of you in the queue. You could spray a psychotropic hallucinogen (with DMSO) on a teenager/youth so that he 'freaks' out and attracts security. Just minor stuff that makes the security people happy that it wasn't another boring day and won't hold up the boarding process for long. :)
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The hardest part of getting a gun on board is getting past the chem sniffer.
You can use a SA Puzzler or WW Infiltrator (cheaper than a PPSK, is already MAD proof and disassembles into toiletries) arsenal page 21.
Assuming you then take 9 rounds of hermetically sealed plastic ammo with the plan to load them into the clip after security. You have a 79% chance of getting past a rating 6 chem sniffer.
That's the best you can do to get deadly force onto a plane without being a initiated aura masking mage.
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And get arrested for trying to sneak a gun in to ballistic flight.
Detecting a gun is a threshold 1 test for a cyberware scanner.
QFT.
Unless you break down the weapon in small and disguised pieces to be reassembled on the plane itself, the cyberware scanner doesn't care whether your gun is made of steel, ceramics or cow dung. It'll find it.
Beyond that, I have to agree with Caradoc.
The biggest weakness in all those security sensors is the fact that humans -or metahumans- are still going to be in charge.
Social engineering or some smuggler contacts with the right connections can get you a Panther XXL or a Gauss Rifle on- board and delivered to your seat by a smiling stewardess with a much higher chance of success than any of the solutions mentioned above.
How dumb it would be to fire a Gauss Rifle inside the pressurized hull of a ballistic plane during mid-flight is another matter entirely.
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Yeah, there's no point even bothering with looking at how to get past MAD scanners or chem sniffers or whatever when they have a cyberware scanner, it's much harder to get weapons past a cyberware scanner than anything else.
The answer is going to be hacking (as in, hack the scanners) or bribery as mentioned above.
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Yeah, there's no point even bothering with looking at how to get past MAD scanners or chem sniffers or whatever when they have a cyberware scanner, it's much harder to get weapons past a cyberware scanner than anything else.
Actually the cyberware scanner and the MAD scanner are the two easiest to defeat. There are weapon modifications that make the gun undetectable. It's just the chem sniffer that can't be automatically defeated.
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Actually the cyberware scanner and the MAD scanner are the two easiest to defeat. There are weapon modifications that make the gun undetectable.
To MAD scanners, nothing affects cyberware scanners.
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Actually the cyberware scanner and the MAD scanner are the two easiest to defeat. There are weapon modifications that make the gun undetectable.
To MAD scanners, nothing affects cyberware scanners.
Actually you're wrong, easy breakdown allows the pistol to become jewelry pieces or other commonly carried pieces.
If you want to use a stock weapon instead of modding your own, the SA Puzzler turns into 20 pieces that look like jewelry, writing implements and other commonly carried items.
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Or just buy an HK Urban Fighter and a concealable holster. Much cheaper.
And get arrested for trying to sneak a gun in to ballistic flight.
Detecting a gun is a threshold 1 test for a cyberware scanner.
Honestly, people on these forums over use cyber-ware scanners. Those things will not be in every air port, restaurant and street corner. They'd actually be pretty darn rare.
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The problem is that while the fluff does indicate cyberware scanners are rare, the actual game mechanics don't support this.
Cyberware scanners are so damn cheap, at least to a corporation, that there's no good reason NOT to have them every damn where.
International airports, however, are one place they WILL have them.
Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T6ANbL3SMw
-k
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I'd more see those being in the most secure of classified government (or megacorp) facilities--think more secure than what Area 51 is thought of today.
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And the international airports like SeaTac have always been described in Shadowrun as being among of the most secure facilities on the planet.
-k
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And the international airports like SeaTac have always been described in Shadowrun as being among of the most secure facilities on the planet.
-k
I just seriously doubt they'd be as secure as a top secret military or corporate facility. You need to remember that 9/11 didn't occur in the SR setting, so the fallout from that never would've happened either.
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They are secure enough that the fiction has corporate, criminal and other organizations using them as secure meeting places since apparently nobody can get weapons in.
I'm not just speculating, this has been in the fluff since first edition.
-k
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They are secure enough that the fiction has corporate, criminal and other organizations using them as secure meeting places since apparently nobody can get weapons in.
I'm not just speculating, this has been in the fluff since first edition.
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You're assuming that it's actually the case and not a good Public Relations department.
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I'm not assuming anything. I'm going by what's been established in the books. It's not just in the fiction, it's in the descriptive sections of game rules too.
-k
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It's still just going way too far to put cyber-ware scanners everywhere pretty much making it impossible to carry a gun anywhere. More importantly, it isn't fun for the players.
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We're not talking about "everywhere" though.
Just airports.
I just mentioned that cyberware scanners, as written, are so damn cheap.
-k
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And the international airports like SeaTac have always been described in Shadowrun as being among of the most secure facilities on the planet.
-k
I just seriously doubt they'd be as secure as a top secret military or corporate facility. You need to remember that 9/11 didn't occur in the SR setting, so the fallout from that never would've happened either.
The OP laid out the security procedures in Jet Set, which apparently include Cyberware scanners.
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Considering almost any jerk can get their hands on a morissey elan, I'd say most major airports would be ready for it. You probably aren't going to have your cyberware scanned at the mall, or when you walk into a hospital, but certain government and corporate facilities? probably. That's why you have a plan.
There are smart jammers, HERF guns, and specialized drones. There's also social engineering, like someone here mentioned. Also, you could swipe someone's gun once you are inside. You could cause a distraction and sneak through.
Someone that wants to pull stuff like that off needs to be resourceful. You do don't just make plan A, you have plan B, C, D. Relying solely on your tech is not the best idea.
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Actually, if cyberware scanners were going to be ANYWHERE, I'd expect them to be at airports with semi-ballistic flights.
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This has already slipped from my hands, but how does a cyber ware scanner detect a non-smart enabled weapon? it reads for "energy signatures" which to the best of my knowledge a cold firearm does not have.
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Actually the cyberware scanner and the MAD scanner are the two easiest to defeat. There are weapon modifications that make the gun undetectable.
To MAD scanners, nothing affects cyberware scanners.
Actually you're wrong, easy breakdown allows the pistol to become jewelry pieces or other commonly carried pieces.
If you want to use a stock weapon instead of modding your own, the SA Puzzler turns into 20 pieces that look like jewelry, writing implements and other commonly carried items.
That doesn't make it undetectable, whether it's recognized as a disassembled gun depend on the persons at hand using the scanner and the databases they have access to.
And cyber ware scanner sure as hell will be at every airport worth mentioning.
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Actually the cyberware scanner and the MAD scanner are the two easiest to defeat. There are weapon modifications that make the gun undetectable. It's just the chem sniffer that can't be automatically defeated.
There are three products to defeat chem sniffers, scaling up from vac seal (hermetic / plastic), low intensity laser (halve detection modifiers based on quantity), and nanocleansers. (destroys all surface traces)
Cyberware scanners are simply defeated by disguising an object as something else, or concealing it within complicated electronics / cyberware.
RC, p33 - 35.
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Cyberware scanners are simply defeated by disguising an object as something else, or concealing it within complicated electronics / cyberware.
RC, p33 - 35.
Hence the advantage of the PSK and the "Scaramanga Special" style weapons.
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Also, the advanced disguise rules in Spy Games. Actually, I'd rather go with them at chargen.
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Do you need the weapon to be used in-fligght at all?
If not, ditch the ammo and just pick some up from a weapons market when you arrive on the other sade. It'll save the whole issue.
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Do you need the weapon to be used in-fligght at all?
If not, ditch the ammo and just pick some up from a weapons market when you arrive on the other sade. It'll save the whole issue.
If you dont need the gun in flight and there's a weapons market on the other side, then there would be no need to even bother trying to get a gun onboard.
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Max, I think he means a particular weapon. Any arms market has ammo, not all arms markets have silencers or your specially made pistol.
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Max, I think he means a particular weapon. Any arms market has ammo, not all arms markets have silencers or your specially made pistol.
You dont really need some specially made pistol.
And really it's a pretty bad black arms market if it doesn't have anything silenced.
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I agree with you don't NEED a specially made pistol. Some people just prefer it.
And go to Iraq and find a silencer. With the right contacts I'm sure you could find one. Without any contacts, though, I can get ammo.
This applies to many countries. A foreigner to the USA has a little trouble getting a gun. Ammo, though? Too easy.
I guess my point is why go try to find a black market in a place you may not be familiar with if you can circumvent the problem.
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Do you need the weapon to be used in-fligght at all?
If not, ditch the ammo and just pick some up from a weapons market when you arrive on the other sade. It'll save the whole issue.
If you dont need the gun in flight and there's a weapons market on the other side, then there would be no need to even bother trying to get a gun onboard.
thats what i was thinking. hijacking a semi-ballistic is pretty damn stupid, given the scarcity of landing areas and the ease of tracking it, not to mention all those witnesses and security footage of you getting onto the plane.
if you want to assasinate someone on board, you'd be better off asking your martial artist adept to do it instead. he can kill with his hands (and potentially at short range with distance strike power). except of course he'll get severely busted as soon as they land.
cant see why that would be a good idea in anyway, you'd be better off if you just mail yourself the gun using a shadow courier and pick it up on the other end or buy one when you get there.
if you're trying to hit/extract a target, i suspect there are much more vulnerable places to do it in than on a semi-ballistic flight. not like you can do a mission impossible and bail out with a parachute at that altitude lol
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If you have a shadow courier or a contact on the other side then I agree with csjarret. The risk isn't worth it. that being said, assuming I am going to an entirely unfamiliar place, taking a gun may be preferable.
Plus, assuming I am intending to use said gun for murder, illegally transporting is not really a concern.
But Max's point is valid though. If you don't need the gun in flight, and can get one elsewhere, don't bring one.
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This was always what I assumed unarmed combat was for. It's pretty undetectable and makes for some awesome roleplay. Plus with martial arts and maneuvers added it can be really brutal.
If you are in an airport or on an airplane you can't even use an unsilenced weapon anyway, so not only do you need the gun, you need a silencer modification, so it's built in and made out of the same materials that are hard to detect. It has to be a disassemblable gun whos components don't look like pieces of a firearm too. All of such weapons at chargen would require you to take restricted gear, which I think is usually a mistake long term.
Instead of disassembled weapons you could use social engineering. A couple well placed bribes could get your gun into the cargo hold. Then you just have to get to the cargo hold from the deck, probably through removing a panel. Throw the weapon away in the trashcan after deboarding.
Better solutions?
Martial arts,
Piano wire,
Hypodermic needle,
Improvised weaponry,
Your enemy's weapon.
Why do you need to discharge a firearm in order to murder someone on a plane? Plenty of ways to kill someone. Just poison their damn drink.
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also, another negative to the discharging weapons on a plane thing: stray rounds can pierce the hull and depressurise the cabin. not cool!
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Gotta back up the poisoned drink suggestion if you want to kill someone on a flight and avoid a small army of cops waiting for you when you land. It's one of the few suggestions so far that doesn't involve tons of witnesses, it's probably comparatively easy (Though getting that poison past the chem sniffers is still a problem), and if you're really good you don't even need to be on the aircraft.
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There is one ammo type that, in retrospect, seems custom-made for this situation. Frangible Rounds.
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Gotta back up the poisoned drink suggestion if you want to kill someone on a flight and avoid a small army of cops waiting for you when you land. It's one of the few suggestions so far that doesn't involve tons of witnesses, it's probably comparatively easy (Though getting that poison past the chem sniffers is still a problem), and if you're really good you don't even need to be on the aircraft.
All very good points. I think that sometimes it's forgotten that most weapons are obvious dangers, but sometimes less obvious dangers are more effective. Land mines are an example of this principle in action.
So when you want to kill someone on a plane full of people, you think... how could someone die on a plane? Well the plane could crash. This plan involves a hacker or a sophisticated bomb/device and a HALO parachute. This plan is harder than it sounds. Also, you are usually a prick for killing a bunch of probably random people.
Next one? Poison. You have to get poison on board and you have to make sure it gets in the right drink and goes to the right person. It also helps to be able to control the situation. Sometimes posing as a flight attendant, air marshal, or even just a random doctor that is taking a vacation can help you maintain control and can make certain aspects of this plan easier. Change disguises in the bathroom before exiting the plane with the passengers.
The fake hijacking can be a good one, but it works better with more than one person. you can also follow your target as he goes to the restroom, wait for him to come out, push him back in, and kill him. Overt plans like this almost always require exiting the aircraft before it lands if getting caught isn't part of your plan. Air marshals are actually really rare on flights. I don't know if that's different in 2072 of an alternate timeline, but I can tell you that this plan goes sour easily if there is an armed opposition.
Asphyxiation, severe allergic reactions, nerve strikes, overdoses... plenty of ways to kill without a plane full of people screaming bloody murder, but you have to know a lot about your target in order to pick the right cause of death for them. If they had documented suicidal tendencies when they were a little younger or a close relative just passed then you can take advantage of that and fake a suicide on board. Just an example.
I'm sure there are a ton of ways that I'm not thinking of right now, considering the ridiculous number of ways a person can die.
What if you board on a wheelchair, make sure you get the seat next to the guy, kill him discreetly, then wheel him off the plane in the wheelchair after discreetly switching a couple of pieces of clothing with him. Hat, coat, tie. Lol.
There is one ammo type that, in retrospect, seems custom-made for this situation. Frangible Rounds.
Flechette, gel, and stick-n-shock are probably relatively safe too.
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FuelDrop and Joker are right. Poison is the key to killing on board a plane. Or anywhere for that matter. Use a protein-based poison and no one is the wiser.
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This discussion makes me wonder what a professional assassin character would look like in Shadowrun. Someone who specializes in wetwork. Personally, i'd take advantage of drones and the ability to remotely control sniper rifles. Poisons for killing in high security situations. Demolitions is probably a good skill for such a character to take. Vehicle bombs are quite effective.
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Demolitions is probably a good skill for such a character to take. Vehicle bombs are quite effective.
Bombs are a little indiscriminate. An assassin is, at his core, just a very precise mercenary. Remove the precision and he's just another thug that kills people for money.
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Remote detonation solves that, doesn't it?
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Demolitions is probably a good skill for such a character to take. Vehicle bombs are quite effective.
Bombs are a little indiscriminate. An assassin is, at his core, just a very precise mercenary. Remove the precision and he's just another thug that kills people for money.
More to the point bombs tend to leave behind a LOT of evidence.
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Like what? You mean like the way the bomb was made? Or the attention it creates?
Also, what different methods of assassination would you use?
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This discussion makes me wonder what a professional assassin character would look like in Shadowrun. Someone who specializes in wetwork. Personally, i'd take advantage of drones and the ability to remotely control sniper rifles. Poisons for killing in high security situations. Demolitions is probably a good skill for such a character to take. Vehicle bombs are quite effective.
On a runner level? I'd say a mix of the above, a set of flyspy drones with telematics infrastructure to keep track of nodes going active / passive / hidden in an area, automated hacking 'link, drone weapons, 'ware or gear for fooling biometrics & either Holowear/RPC or more 'ware for disguise. Jury Rigging, for arranged "accidents". Not that you need to go so tech-orientated.
If I were going to assassinate someone on a plane, I'd slip a hydrophone / secondary function explosive device into their food / drink. This is going to be smaller than an icecube, as the hydrophone was intended to go in a drink. The explosive needs no explanation, but the hydrophone capsule starts growing filaments after a set period of time, meant to anchor it inside building pipes. Then you just need to figure out what sound should trigger the hydrophone. (and the explosive)
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Like what? You mean like the way the bomb was made? Or the attention it creates?
Also, what different methods of assassination would you use?
Materials, techniques, etc. Even in the present bomb analysis is pretty detailed and exact.
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If you never make the same bomb twice and you don't use them all the time then that evidence wouldn't do any good, right? If it would have done any good in the first place. I suppose I don't know much about it, but it seems like detonators and explosives are mass produced too, judging by availability and cost. Harder to trace, so at worst it evens out with the futuristic forensics, right?
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If you never make the same bomb twice and you don't use them all the time then that evidence wouldn't do any good, right? If it would have done any good in the first place. I suppose I don't know much about it, but it seems like detonators and explosives are mass produced too, judging by availability and cost. Harder to trace, so at worst it evens out with the futuristic forensics, right?
In the real world (and shadowrun may vary) the stuff you need to make a bomb is surprisingly traceable, and a bomb maker's tendencies can be as individual (and as unconscious) as handwriting. I suspect that in a world of SINS and universal databases that's even more true.
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Here's the one thing that just popped into my mind..... Mage gets onto flight, casts mob mind spell and orders everyone affected to attack the target..... With the right metamagics it sounds very doable
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Crunch is very right on how traceable explosives are. That being said tracing it to an individual is very hard to do. If one guy blows up multiple people over several incidents, then it gets a lot easier. Without revealing the actual technique to tracking explosives, one guy usually uses the same materials, wires the bombs the same, etc.
Also, to look at a real life hitman, Robert Pronge used remote detonated grenades under cars for years. He never got caught. How do I know about him? Another hitman (Richard Kuklinski) killed him. Remote explosives don't have to be indiscriminate, you just have to be careful.
@Joker: A surprisingly few companies make explosives and they all leave "prints". Very easy to trace an explosive back to a company, even after detonation.
CEXC teams (Combined Explosives eXploitation Cells) are REALLY good at tracking explosives.
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companies as in megacorps and subsidiaries? It's tracable, sure, but not that easily when you use a fake sin and maybe a disguise to buy it, right? Or if you snag it on the black market.
An alternative is vehicle hacking. A skilled hacker could erase any trace of their involvement in a crash. Frame jobs would be incredibly easy. A hacker could also take advantage of other aspects of technological dependence. Elevators, security systems, drones. Additionally, methods of killing that aren't normally very viable could also become quite viable for a skilled hacker.
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if you're trying to hit/extract a target, i suspect there are much more vulnerable places to do it in than on a semi-ballistic flight. not like you can do a mission impossible and bail out with a parachute at that altitude
Have you seen the original TV show? They definitely had the gumption, and with the tech available in Shadowrun 2070s it's probably easily available to people who can get onto semiballistic flights anyway to smuggle on the high-altitude suits and HALO parachutes.
That being said, I think Joker's already made the best points about alternatives to obvious weapons on well-tracked flights. When you're a shadowrunner, forensics is usually not your friend.
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Yeah Joker that's what I was saying. Tracing the explosives to the company that made them is easy. Tracking them to a particular guy is the incredibly difficult part. Not impossible, but difficult.
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Yeah Joker that's what I was saying. Tracing the explosives to the company that made them is easy. Tracking them to a particular guy is the incredibly difficult part. Not impossible, but difficult.
If possible, using materials made by a rival mega corp, makes the tracking of the individual who bought the materials much closer to impossible 8)
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This discussion makes me wonder what a professional assassin character would look like in Shadowrun. Someone who specializes in wetwork. Personally, i'd take advantage of drones and the ability to remotely control sniper rifles. Poisons for killing in high security situations. Demolitions is probably a good skill for such a character to take. Vehicle bombs are quite effective.
I'd recommend Dragonfly drones and outfit them with syringes. They're small, fast, and cheep.
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How dumb it would be to fire a Gauss Rifle inside the pressurized hull of a ballistic plane during mid-flight is another matter entirely.
Dumb? There's a high chance of target fatality! But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies), be a changeling with claws. Take it a step further and learn some martial arts and take some maneuvers.
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But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies),
Are you saying to plug the hull breach with babies?
-k
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That makes about as much sense as his plan.
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But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies),
Are you saying to plug the hull breach with babies?
I hadn't thought about that, but I guess that solution makes the assault cannon a viable option after all.
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But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies),
Are you saying to plug the hull breach with babies?
I hadn't thought about that, but I guess that solution makes the assault cannon a viable option after all.
Let us take this to its logical extreme and make an assault cannon that shoots babies, thus plugging the hole it just made automatically.
Edit: Ok, 'Logical' may be a bit generous. You can't argue about the extreme part though!
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But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies),
Are you saying to plug the hull breach with babies?
I hadn't thought about that, but I guess that solution makes the assault cannon a viable option after all.
Let us take this to its logical extreme and make an assault cannon that shoots babies, thus plugging the hole it just made automatically.
Edit: Ok, 'Logical' may be a bit generous. You can't argue about the extreme part though!
I like it! So that's the plan then? Only one last variable to cover, human babies, or elf babies?
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But if you're worrying about reentry with in an intact atmosphere (babies),
Are you saying to plug the hull breach with babies?
I hadn't thought about that, but I guess that solution makes the assault cannon a viable option after all.
Let us take this to its logical extreme and make an assault cannon that shoots babies, thus plugging the hole it just made automatically.
Edit: Ok, 'Logical' may be a bit generous. You can't argue about the extreme part though!
I like it! So that's the plan then? Only one last variable to cover, human babies, or elf babies?
Elf. They're only dirty sub-human metas anyway. :P
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Idiots. If you have a baby-cannon, you use troll babies. The horns will do more damage to start with, and then you have an overall more durable baby to plug the hole with.
Amateurs. ;)
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Idiots. If you have a baby-cannon, you use troll babies. The horns will do more damage to start with, and then you have an overall more durable baby to plug the hole with.
Amateurs. ;)
That works too. Even worse of dirty metas than elves. :P
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Oh sure, bigger projectiles! don't you know about hydrostatic shock? High velocity elf babies are obviously the solution.
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*sigh*
Obviously, dwarves are the best answer.
Only slightly less velocity than elves, but much more durable than humans.
Their decreased size also allows more ammo capacity... You know, 'cuz we all want to modify to Full Auto.
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orc babies. because no-one will question a massive litter of orc babies being brought onto the plane at once.
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Ghoul babies, so they bite onto to target for additional damage. Plus nobody cares if they get shot out of a cannon ..or by a cannon, or into a cannon. Nobody cares.
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Why not Ghoul Gnomes? We'll dedicate a whole research institute of SK to developing a viable High capacity High velocity Gnome ammunition, this will out do Deathdealer ammo by billions!
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why not just shoot insect spirits?
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why not just shoot insect spirits?
Insect spirits POSSESSING ghoul gnomes. if a thing is worth doing it's worth overdoing.
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I'd have someone with some serious social skills.
Con/Seduce your way through security, or better yet, a pilot to get through security.
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And then hand off the gun that shoots possessed ghoul gnomes hidden within a bag of peanuts? It's the perfect crime.
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And then hand off the gun that shoots possessed baby ghoul gnomes hidden within a bag of peanuts? It's the perfect crime.
fixed :-)
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Ah, thanks, I can't believe I missed that. The last 5 years of research and 2 missing diplomats didn't go to waste.
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I'd have someone with some serious social skills.
Con/Seduce your way through security, or better yet, a pilot to get through security.
Not easy. I go through a lot of airports and those guys love to unquestioningly follow the bureaucracy. Best to have your way in figured out before you get there. Pilot is a great idea, but flight attendant is even better, I think.
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I'd have someone with some serious social skills.
Con/Seduce your way through security, or better yet, a pilot to get through security.
Not easy. I go through a lot of airports and those guys love to unquestioningly follow the bureaucracy. Best to have your way in figured out before you get there. Pilot is a great idea, but flight attendant is even better, I think.
pilots and flight attendants have to go through security just like we do, except they use a fast track lane. they get checked following a few attendants getting involved in smuggling operations.
even if you do get a gun onto the flight, you've still gotta wait the couple of hours in the 'plane with 20-120 witness to murder as you cant really bail out without decompressing and murdering the rest of the passengers at sub-orbital altitude. you'd also need some kind of space/pressure suit and a bloody good parachute to bail out.
if you dont bail, but stay on the plane till it lands, you've then got to deal with a small army of police waiting for you on the tarmac.
you cant really hijack the plane without getting shot down by military jets (ATC would pick you up as deviating from flight plans). even if you could somehow avoid them, where would you land it? and what would you do with all the other passengers?
which ever way you cut it, its just a bad idea. if you desperately need to kill someone who's going to be on a sub-orbital and you must use a gun to do it, then shoot him either on the way to the airport, or while he's distracted waiting for check-in/security. at least you can arrange a getaway vehicle and stand a bit better chance of getting away with it.
if it has to happen on the plane, get your unarmed combat adept to do it, or use poison or a poison gas or something and plan a pretty mighty get-away
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The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that you can whack someone on a sub-orbital, decompress the thing (taking care of witnesses), and get away scot-free ... just gotta figure exactly how and where is the point to do it, and how to get out safely.
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Why not just sneak on to the airfield as mechanics, and sabotage the plane, all you need to do is loose some of the heat absorbing panels, or fix some of the elevators so they can't go into landing position, and the whole thing tumbles out of control and explodes. No witnesses, it looks like an accident, and you didn't have to sneak anything illegal onto the airfield except yourselves. To do that, you have a good hacker friend who knows how to manipulate data bases by proxy, IE, have him log in using the shift supervisor's comcode.
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I'd go in with a borrowed SIN as an attendant, then use a poison that makes it look like a heart attack or something of that sort. Use a face case to make yourself look different, so that you don't get made and can't be tracked down later. This is for a commercial flght. Private flights would be much easier. My preference is to not kill indescriminately. If you don't care about that sort of thing you could find 20 ways to just blow the plane up.
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Yeah, if you wanted to simply kill everyone on the plane just use the old standby of Mage+Barrier+Telescope.
Of course, if I were going to try assassinating someone on a plane with minimal civilian casualties then I'd consider using that personality reprogramming software and basically turning someone into a disposable assassin, much like they do with hypnosis in some movies. a personafix could also work for that.
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Oh sorry, I thought we were still running with the idea of Insect Spirit, Gnome, Ghoul, Babies. I forgot that people cared about civilians over covering their own tracks.
Honestly, if you're going to poison him, do it before or after the flight, I mean, if you did it in the air there wouldn't be a chance of a medic. But then you have you and 40 other people to choose from as the culprit. On the ground it could be any one of thousands of people going in and out of the airport.
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If you are gonna poison someone, why do it on a plane? Smuggling in poison is an unnecessary risk. Just do it elsewhere.
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If you are gonna poison someone, why do it on a plane? Smuggling in poison is an unnecessary risk. Just do it elsewhere.
Because Mr. Johnson said so.
Are you going to argue with Mr. Johnson over when and where he wants this guy dead?
How's that soy kibble taste?
I mean, sure - demand a payday that scales with the risks...but always remember, if it were going to be easy, WTF does he need to hire YOU for?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I still like the idea of crashing the whole plane. Either that or replace the crew and explain to them "Quiet Time".
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Many poisons often appear as other causes of death until extensive tests are done.
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One word: Carcerands.
Slip it in his drink before he ever gets on the plane. Have the timer set to go off while the plane is in flight. Make it something suitably nasty and quick-working, so that the authorities go over everyone on the plane first, before considering carcerands. By the time they do, you're long gone.
Personally, for killing someone on a suborbital, I'd go with carcerands filled with shade, especially if they're mundane. Even if they somehow manage to not die in the mana void, they're going to have a helluva time finding their body before the duration wears off.
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If you are gonna poison someone, why do it on a plane? Smuggling in poison is an unnecessary risk. Just do it elsewhere.
Because Mr. Johnson said so.
Are you going to argue with Mr. Johnson over when and where he wants this guy dead?
How's that soy kibble taste?
I mean, sure - demand a payday that scales with the risks...but always remember, if it were going to be easy, WTF does he need to hire YOU for?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Well we could use a blowgun and pass it off as a wasp sting, should work so long as there aren't any belgians on the plane.
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And then hand off the gun that shoots possessed ghoul gnomes hidden within a bag of peanuts? It's the perfect crime.
Not quite. The perfect crime is to make whatever crime you plan to commit legal first.
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What are we, the Big Ten? We're shadowrunners not lobbyists.
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Most Shadowrunners with any thoughts for longevity don´t favor the hack and slash philosophy.
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Hack and slash? We just killed a man with an experimental biological cannon, and saved the plane we were on, alternately poisoned the target and he didn't die until after we left the airport, or alternately again walked away from an airport undetected and the target died in a suborbital crash caused by an unidentifiable mechanical failure 90 minutes latter.
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I'm amazed nobody's mentioned the Solution the Mongols came up with getting past the Great Wall of China.
Bribe the damned guards.
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Actually a lot of people said social engineering. Which equates to bribe the damned guards.
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The weakest link in any security setup is always the (meta)human one. Day one, lesson one of my network security class.
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If he jumps into astral mid flight and has no idea whats going on would he just kinda of fall out of the plane and hover around for a bit?
If so, simple. Dose him with shade just prior to the plane hitting the edge of space, this sends him into astral space (magician or not) he'll be disoriented and probably have no clue on how to get back to his body or track it down. Once the plane lands the medics will move the body. Now you just wait for his spirit to die.
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I like the OP a lot, but I feel like the airport security slags would probably be more than a little suspicious upon x-raying/doing a bag check and finding a HERMETICALLY SEALED BOX.
Kind of thing that raises red flags at a glance. Honestly, I think you'd do better with the PSK-3 in a cyberleg holster, and then just Charisma + Con them into believing that the PSK-3 is part of the cyberware that's essential to making your leg (..."lost it in the Crash"...) work. Less ranks of restricted gear, certainly. And the closest you can get to a pistol disguised as part of a dialysis machine.
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Restricted gear is never worth it, and is way overused. You only need it if your character absolutely needs to begin his career with said item. You can always try to get that item at any point outside of character creation. That's what contacts are for.
I would also submit that, while your idea is good, a gun is not the best way to kill someone on a commercial flight. Too clear that a murder has taken place and exit strategies are more difficult from a jet travelling at high altitude than you might think. Their speed alone creates... issues. The altitude also creates a need for some conspicuous gear.
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Restricted gear is never worth it, and is way overused. You only need it if your character absolutely needs to begin his career with said item. You can always try to get that item at any point outside of character creation. That's what contacts are for.
Never say never. You don't need it, unless you need it? That's very zen. :P
For 5BP, I can get a restricted item up to Availability 20, or at best a 4/1 Contact. A 4/1 Fixer might be able to swing that kind of heat, but that finder's fee is gonna cost me - and if it is cyber, after CharGen I gotta have it installed.
There are certainly cases where Restricted Gear is a decent deal.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Agreed. IMO, things like a Suprathyroid gland (+1 to 4 attributes) or Muscle Toner 4 (+4 Agi) can sometimes be well worth the investment.
Let's take a combat infiltrator. By spending 11.4BP (5 Restricted Gear, 6.4 for 32kY), he can get Muscle Toner 4 installed.
11.4BP for a +4 boost to every Firearm and Melee skill and the main part of Infiltration and Athletics skillgroup...
That can certainly be worth it.
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Lol Xzy that is what my merc used it for (muscle toner 4). Great point. Never say never. Be inventive Joker. Everything is worth it depending on maximization or flavor.
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Flavour concepts make all options valid.
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I'll never understand why the Restricted Gear quality gets so much grief. I've seen characters that need two ranks just to explain their back story and were very good once the game got rolling.
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*Neil the Ork Barbarian ringtone*
"King County Morgue. You kill 'em, we chill 'em.
Who? Oh. Yeah, yeah I remember you.
Whoa whoa whoa...pump your brakes, guy. I ain't your chummer, I ain't your partner, and I ain't your friend. I am your nearly total stranger who sometimes does a little biz in the 'things you need but don't have' arena. So stop wasting my time with the chit chat. Tick tick, time is money. Whaddaya want?
I'm sorry, you said what? Uh huh. Uh huh.
Oh, so we are making jokes, now? Allow me to retort.
*click*
*Neil the Ork Barbarian ringtone*
"If this is you, again, the next words I hear had best be a heartfelt apology...
You're frakking serious?
Are you a cop? Yeah, that's just what a cop would say. Listen, chummer, maybe I can get it, maybe I can't.
Yeah, now you're my chummer - cause if I find this for you, you're putting my whelps through college, bright boy.
Here's how this is gonna go down:
One. If..If...I can find this thing for you, I get a finders fee. And I don't do credit, favors, or fat chicks, so you better have the yen to cover it.
Two. I ain't finding this by tomorrow. I gotta go after this on the lo-low, and seeing as it is seriously toxic illegal style goods, chances are it ain't gonna be local.
Three. Travel and docs ain't covered in the finders fee. No free rides, buddy. So ka? Also, you're going to need serious weight for the goods, the install, the docs...we're talking shadow clinics in Chiba, choomba.
You taking notes? Good.
If you don't mind my asking, where DID you get this kind of walking around money, anyway? You make any terrifying frakking enemies I should know about? I don't want to wake up dead before I can spend my cut, is all, slick...."
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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"Easier than I thought." Kane says as he hangs up on the call.
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I simply cannot, in any way, imagine Kane ever sounding like a cop.
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Lol Xzy that is what my merc used it for (muscle toner 4). Great point. Never say never. Be inventive Joker. Everything is worth it depending on maximization or flavor.
I lean away from minmaxing to the degree that it supersedes character concept. Qualities, to me, should be picked based on the character and not how far you can break the game. Restricted gear has it's place, but I feel that it is most commonly abused by shortsighted munchkins, who don't play roleplaying games to roleplay.
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Ugh, not the Stormwind Falacy again.
(Most of) my characters are professionals with at least some experience and knowledge of what their possiblities are to improve themselves in their fields.
They'll try to "be all they can be" and be the best in their specialities, using anything they can get their hands on if it gives 'em an edge, as long as they don't have to sacrifice too much for it.
I'd find it pretty immersion-breaking to believe they -wouldn't- try to get their hands on something as good as Muscle Toner unless there's a very good reason for it.
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Lol Xzy that is what my merc used it for (muscle toner 4). Great point. Never say never. Be inventive Joker. Everything is worth it depending on maximization or flavor.
I lean away from minmaxing to the degree that it supersedes character concept. Qualities, to me, should be picked based on the character and not how far you can break the game. Restricted gear has it's place, but I feel that it is most commonly abused by shortsighted munchkins, who don't play roleplaying games to roleplay.
Wow. Shortsighted Munchkins, eh?
May I direct your attention to your own comment:
Restricted gear is never worth it, and is way overused. You only need it if your character absolutely needs to begin his career with said item. You can always try to get that item at any point outside of character creation. That's what contacts are for.
Your entire premise is that it is inefficient! Then we demonstrate cases where it is, we are shortsighted Munchkins who don't roleplay?
For the love of irony, man, I even role played out a conversation demonstrating our point.
Is misplaced condescension your go-to response when people don't agree with your sweeping generalities, then?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Wow, Joe.
Take a deep breath and relax, man.
I don't think the 'shortshighted munchkin' quip was targetted at anyone specifically.
There do exist Rollplayers that aren't interested in Roleplaying at all, and I'll agree they aren't fun at all and they can sometimes be disruptive enough to really break games.
But Joker should really understand that character optimization and good roleplaying are NOT mutually exclusive.
Again, please google the Stormwind Falacy.
And, well, just being a bit careful what you post might be a good idea too.
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Calm down, Joe. I agree with both you and Joker. Minmaxing at character creation can supersede flavor. The point I was making is essentially what Xzy made, which is that Restricted Gear is useful for a variety of reasons.
It is the same reason Parapeligic exists as a negative quality. Minmax-wise, worst possible quality. Flavor-wise, could be interesting.
My character with Muscle Toner 4 is a mercenary (as mentioned previously). Was my use of restricted gear totally for flavor? No. Did I minmax the character? Also no. I optimized his Agility, but other than that he is a Face/Medic/Infiltrator.
That being said, he can shoot the $h^* out of stuff too. :)
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Wow. Shortsighted Munchkins, eh?
May I direct your attention to your own comment:
Restricted gear is never worth it, and is way overused. You only need it if your character absolutely needs to begin his career with said item. You can always try to get that item at any point outside of character creation. That's what contacts are for.
Your entire premise is that it is inefficient! Then we demonstrate cases where it is, we are shortsighted Munchkins who don't roleplay?
For the love of irony, man, I even role played out a conversation demonstrating our point.
Is misplaced condescension your go-to response when people don't agree with your sweeping generalities, then?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Wasn't implying that about you, so maybe take your nerdrage down a notch. It's just someone who might have a different opinion than you, not the end of the word.
I'm not saying that I disagree with the playing style of anyone who minmaxes. I do it. It's common sense to make a good character. I just don't enjoy gaming with people who do put it before any kind of real character concept. I don't like the thought of anyone's character concept consisting of "I could have really high dice pool if I could do this". I'm not saying that anyone who optimizes is like that, but I know that powergamers exist that just play the game to roll dice to kill stuff and blow things up. I know because I have played with them.
This is all just my personal opinion, but in order to understand what I am trying to say we would have to get more specific than such generalizations. It's partially about the nature of a quality like Restricted Gear. It can make really cool stuff possible, but I believe it can be abused just to get the biggest guns and the best armor for your troll, even though his lifestyle is low and his concept is sprawl ganger bruiser with no explanation for having gear like that at the beginning. Like so many things in this game, it is completely up to the GM to regulate. Some groups who put roleplay first will have a GM who does indeed closely regulate the use of the Quality, like it recommends in its description, other groups might actually prefer just to powergame, steal, and blow things up. Their GM might just allow it to be used without question. I tend strongly towards the former, because I believe there is a balance to be maintained and that roleplaying games shouldn't be played as if they were miniatures games and little else.
I mispoke when I said "most commonly" and made some other incorrect generalizations. I don't think that those people are the majority, but I do believe that is that way that many people play the game. It's a game with an incredible capacity for customization, which inevitably begs the question of what heights one can reach within the confines. I believe though, that the purpose for such customization is to allow you to build any character that can be imagined by someone who knows the setting well. My character's start with concept, then optimization, not the other way around.
I also wasn't merely saying it is inefficient... You are limited to 35BP in positive qualities... That's the most you can ever have. it's my personal opinion that qualities give depth to your character and that Restricted Gear isn't usually awesome for that. Sometimes it is great for it though. You can buy it off later, but you often don't start play with a defining quality that you otherwise would have. I also feel like games don't always put enough emphasis on contacts, considering how expensive they are in the system and how essential they would be for many characters in the Shadowrun universe. The normal availability limit is 12, so it only makes sense that contacts should be your usual go to for 20 availability items that you don't absolutely need at chargen.
In conclusion, I think that Restricted gear is easily mistaken for the "cheap badass gear" Quality, and is rarely regulated as recommended. That is my most common experience with it, which can be bothersome to me, because I believe that the balance between roleplaying and optimizing is more easily neglected in a game with fewer confines to a regulating system than it is in the confines of a game like D&D. In a game more like shadowrun, such balance of the two is often a conscious decision.
Found this in a comment after reading the Stormwind Fallacy:
"If your rolls are not enhancing your roles, and vice versa, you're doing it wrong."
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Actually, I interpreted that comment as aimed at Xzy. If that wasn't the case, then remove some of the italics, or something.
I'm sure you meant "shortsighted munchkins who don't roleplay" in the nicest possible way. ;)
(That's a joke, btw)
Qualities aren't set in stone after CharGen. They are hard to get or improve, but it can be done.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Screw all this work to sneak a gun just be an adept with the ability to throw anything and walk on board with a deck of cards aka 52 rounds if pure death.
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Screw all this work to sneak a gun just be an adept with the ability to throw anything and walk on board with a deck of cards aka 52 rounds if pure death.
Love that idea but I'm not sure that they could do enough damage.... Plus bullseye only exists in the marvel comics :p
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Well, there's also Gambit, but I'd go with a social adept. Slip some toxin in a drink, sweet talk the attendant to give it to the target without remembering me, and then walk off the flight with the mission done and nobody the wiser.
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Go with a Pornomancer instead, and make the target kill him/herself at the end of the flight.
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I'm amazed this is still alive. For the record, the situation isn't an assassination, it's an attempted assassination by another party against a third that threatens to take the craft with them.
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Screw all this work to sneak a gun just be an adept with the ability to throw anything and walk on board with a deck of cards aka 52 rounds if pure death.
Love that idea but I'm not sure that they could do enough damage.... Plus bullseye only exists in the marvel comics :p
Actually it is pretty easy to get the dmg up pretty high as their is another ability that ups dmg and range as well like critical strike does for hand to hand. UmaroVI's neoprimitive trolls cards and pens would do 8P and I built a Orc once that could throw them for 7P and do like 8P unarmed as a starting 400 BP character. So yeah dmg is easy.
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An Adept with Commanding Voice would also work. They shout "Drop the gun" duder drops it then everyone piles on. All nice and nonlethal.
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Screw all this work to sneak a gun just be an adept with the ability to throw anything and walk on board with a deck of cards aka 52 rounds if pure death.
Love that idea but I'm not sure that they could do enough damage.... Plus bullseye only exists in the marvel comics :p
Missile Mastery (Street Magic, 178) defines their damage code to be (Strength/2)P, and Power Throw can increase that.
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Okay, can someone som up what exactly you need to have to get a gun onto a plane undetected?
I have read the whole discussion but I lost track along the way. And I would love to have that info for an upcoming session I'm Gming.
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you'd probably need something very small, that breaks into other pieces that resemble normal stuff like make up holders/pens etc, that are also shielded from chemical sniffers and made of stuff that doesnt alert MAD detectors.
very high social skills to bluff it through security when they undoubtedly have a look at it.
someone on the inside who can get ammunition into a high security area and get a means of getting it to you inside the terminal
total idiocy to then use the weapon on a small, flying, crowded, aliminium tube that you are stuck on with a whole load of witnesses to your crime, until it is landed in an airport full of police wanting to arrest you.
probably the dumbest plan ever, just tail the dude on his way to the airport and kill him in his car/the car park/on the way to the terminal/in the terminal, just not on the bloody plane lol.
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I simply cannot, in any way, imagine Kane ever sounding like a cop.
Which, when you stop and think about it, make him the perfect deep cover cop.
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I simply cannot, in any way, imagine Kane ever sounding like a cop.
Which, when you stop and think about it, make him the perfect deep cover cop.
And how many folks thought he'd make a decent cosplayer (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/99534/Shadowrun%3A-Safehouses)? ;D
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Okay, can someone som up what exactly you need to have to get a gun onto a plane undetected?
I have read the whole discussion but I lost track along the way. And I would love to have that info for an upcoming session I'm Gming.
Your best bet would be the SA Puzzler or WW Infiltrator from Arsenal.
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Okay, can someone som up what exactly you need to have to get a gun onto a plane undetected?
I have read the whole discussion but I lost track along the way. And I would love to have that info for an upcoming session I'm Gming.
There is a run in Jet Set in which the players are caught in the middle of a suicide attack on a ballistic-flight.