[Tarislar]

I'm trying to understand cyberlimbs & how they can be augmented as well as how they are used for tasks & if they affect limits.


Example:
Sammy Twoarms spent 9 points at Chargen for Bod6, Rea5, and added some Reflexes-2 for the following stats.
Body-6
Agility-1
Reaction-7
Strength-1

Sammy has 2 CyberArms.

Lefty is basic 3-Str, 3-Agi model with nothing special.
Righty is where the fun stuff is.,  Customization-Str+3/Agi+3, Enhancement-Str+3/Agi+3, Cyberslide w/ Taser, Cyberspurs.


So I'm a bit unsure how this all goes together.

1.  Regardless of your actual STR/AGI, the Arm comes at 3.
2.  It can be Customized up to Racial Max (Human-6),  similar to if you just plain had better base attributes.
3.  It can be Enhanced for 3 Above Racial Max levels, similar to Muscle Augmentation cyberware
4.  Your actual base attribute has no effect on any of the above situations.

Now, assuming I'm understanding those building basics correctly.  On to how it gets used.

1.  You can only get the actual arm rating if your doing something with just that arm.
Example. Shooting 1 handed or punching with the Right Arm gets you base 9 attr dice.

2.  Anything that requires both arms would then average the ratings.
Example-A:  Lift/Carry type tasks or ripping a door of its hinges, etc etc, since it uses both arms,  averaging to only 6 dice.
Example-B:  Using Rifles, MG's, etc etc will net you an "Average of the 3 & 9 dice for 6 Agi + Skill level

3.  A multi-limb strenuous/balancing task defaults to the lowest limb.
Example-A:  You lift a car with your 2 arms but then attempt to walk 10 feet & your legs (Str1) give out.  (1 Die)
Example-B:  You hold a rope w/ Left hand & another person with Right hand, defaulting to Str-3 of the Left Arm then.  (3 Dice)


Also, how would the Physical Limit change based on those actions above.

For example.
Base PL = 5
Would it change for Cyber Implant Combat with the Spurs to be 11?  (9*2+6+7=31/3=11)
Would just Damage be based off the Right Arm but "Sparring" being moving around blocking, parrying, jabbing, be  an "average" situation?  (6 dice)


I "think" I'm understanding how it works both in building the arm & how its used but some clarification would be most helpful.

Thank you for any input you can provide.

[Erling]

1.  Regardless of your actual STR/AGI, the Arm comes at 3.
2.  It can be Customized up to Racial Max (Human-6),  similar to if you just plain had better base attributes.
3.  It can be Enhanced for 3 Above Racial Max levels, similar to Muscle Augmentation cyberware
4.  Your actual base attribute has no effect on any of the above situations.

That's correct, though I'm not sure what do you mean by "similar to Muscle Augmentation cyberware" (technically "muscle augmentation" is bioware, and I'm not sure there is a limit for it equal to cyberlimbs' limit).

1.  You can only get the actual arm rating if your doing something with just that arm.
Example. Shooting 1 handed or punching with the Right Arm gets you base 9 attr dice.

Correct.

Example-B:  Using Rifles, MG's, etc etc will net you an "Average of the 3 & 9 dice for 6 Agi + Skill level

Correct.

Example-A:  Lift/Carry type tasks or ripping a door of its hinges, etc etc, since it uses both arms,  averaging to only 6 dice.

At GM's discretion. One can decide that lifting involves legs too.

Example-A:  You lift a car with your 2 arms but then attempt to walk 10 feet & your legs (Str1) give out.  (1 Die)

Correct.

Example-B:  You hold a rope w/ Left hand & another person with Right hand, defaulting to Str-3 of the Left Arm then.  (3 Dice)

I would say those are two different test: for holding a rope and for holding a person. There's no sophisticated coordination of limbs.

& if they affect limits.

It's usually interpreted as limbs DON'T affect limits.

[Michael Chandra]

Cyberlimbs ignore augmented maximum but also do not aid your Limit, they also do not help your movement rate.

[Lucean]

Can they hinder your movement rate?
Would a human character with 5(9) AGI and AGI 5 cyberlegs be able to move 18/36 metres?

[Top Dog]

The actual wording is a bit... iffy, but the most likely reading (and the general consensus) is that cyberlimb attributes only help tests that uses those limbs. That means that things like running speed aren't affected at all - and in the rare case that your cyberlimbs are lower, it still wouldn't.

[Michael Chandra]

They simply don't impact your movement rate, though a GM may decide to houserule otherwise for cyberlegs. Most people only take cyberarms, though, so it wouldn't matter to them. Taking 9-Agi cyberarms on a 3-agi character means your movement rates are 6/12, and those arms won't help you with your Sprinting either.

[martinchaen]

And this is one of the reasons cyberlimbs in SR5 usually isn't worth it unless you sit down with your GM and really go through a lot of scenarios.

What is described as a pretty awesome piece of kit in the fluff turns out to be more of a liability than anything else in terms of game mechanics, even if you spend upwards of 400k nuyen on them.

For the same price, you can have cyberware or bioware that adds to ALL tests AND increases your derived stats.

[Xenon]

High strength legs help you sprint faster and adding hydraulic jacks to them let you sprint even faster (jacks also give you an improved physical limit on your sprint test).

[martinchaen]

Note that Aaron only commented on the usage of Hydraulic Jacks; the wireless dice pool modifier is +1 regardless of rating, while the limit modifier is +1 per rating

[Xenon]

He had to clarify that?
Book kinda spell it out in a way that make it hard to misinterpret if you ask me


Each Rating point adds a +1 to your Physical limit for jumping and sprinting

[martinchaen]

He suggested I submit it to the errata thread, actually, because while the rules are very clear I questioned whether the rules were correct or not. +1 dice pool seemed weird for Rating 6 Hydraulic Jacks to me; they do reduce falling damage and they do increase jumping and running limits, but with even a baseline limit of 4 you'll end up with a limit of 10 and something like 10-12 dice on the running test, which just seems off.

Q: Hydraulic Jacks (page 457) add their Rating to your limit for certain physical tests, but the wireless bonus is a fixed +1 dice pool; is this a typo and should the wireless bonus also be dependent on Rating, or is the dice pool bonus intended to always be +1?

The rules definitely say that you get a flat +1 dice pool bonus. You might want to post in the errata thread, just to be sure.

[Xenon]

ahh, ok now i get it.
(you put the per rating in italics as if you were emphasizing that part....)

[martinchaen]

I was

Easy to misread, my bad.

[JimmyCrisis]

I believe you get to use the stats of the limb that you lead the attack with.  A two handed weapon (assault rifle, claymore) can be lead with one arm, and supported with the other.  So, you'd still get the strength and agility of the good arm.

Also, a 1 strength and agility is a pretty crippling condition.  Sprinting at 4 meters/combat turn?  Forget outrunning lonestar, dodging traffic, or that grenade.  Can you imagine someone who can barely sprint twelve feet in three seconds?  How could they even participate in the run?  Might have to change their runner handle to "Meat Turret."

[Michael Chandra]

I believe you get to use the stats of the limb that you lead the attack with.

I'm not sure on that myself, given how I've never seen any rule statement supporting it. The rules now simply note you average the limbs involved in a test.