[fougerec99]

In some ways Edge reminds me of Momentum from the Modiphius system in which actions generate points which  can then be pooled or spent on things from a chart to do awesome things.

I see many people complaining about the math of it etc. but it seems really simple to me.  Perhaps because of my experience with a similar (though admittedly very different) system.

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

In some ways Edge reminds me of Momentum from the Modiphius system in which actions generate points which  can then be pooled or spent on things from a chart to do awesome things.

I see many people complaining about the math of it etc. but it seems really simple to me.  Perhaps because of my experience with a similar (though admittedly very different) system.

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

It's very different from how Edge used to work in 4e and 5e.  Big changes inevitably have people who don't like them.  And unhappy people can certainly tend to be vocal.

[fougerec99]

I get that it's different and people don't like it.  That's subjective but people are talking like it's objectively difficult to track or do math on etc. and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or not

[Hephaestus]

I get that it's different and people don't like it.  That's subjective but people are talking like it's objectively difficult to track or do math on etc. and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or not

One of the the issues I've seen in these forums is how to keep track of Edge gains throughout the turn, especially Edge generated by sequential actions within each player's activation.

Like a wired up Street Sam with two majors getting two Edge by attacking a low DR target, then immediately spending it on their second attack on a different target, which may grant them a 3rd or 4th Edge on their activation. Technically their net Edge for their activation was 2-2+2=2. Do they get to keep the 2 net Edge?

[Banshee]

I get that it's different and people don't like it.  That's subjective but people are talking like it's objectively difficult to track or do math on etc. and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or not

In general people are just making it so much harder than it is ... current RAW limit gain ad 2 per round with an overall cap of 7 ... that's it, nothing else to remember. There is a push to change to max gain if 2 per action ... still not difficult since the overall cap is still 7. At 7? Can't gain until you spend down .. and no you can't temporarily go over 7 even if you're gaining and spending on the same action. Gain is first.

[Shinobi Killfist]

In some ways Edge reminds me of Momentum from the Modiphius system in which actions generate points which  can then be pooled or spent on things from a chart to do awesome things.

I see many people complaining about the math of it etc. but it seems really simple to me.  Perhaps because of my experience with a similar (though admittedly very different) system.

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

Depends on what you mean by math complaints. I have one in the sense it is one more thing to track as a GM.  It’s not super complicated or anything but GMs already had a lot on their plate, one more thing is still one more thing. And for players tracking tokens while easy is again still tracking tokens. It’s another dial you have to pay attention too.

 But the math complaints I have seen are about how it’s not just a momentum system but also subs in for a difficulty modifier sometimes and sometimes dice pool modifications do. And sometimes the difficulty modifier is just ignored. Which creates two issues one it’s not a intuitive choice of whether this should be a edge gain or a dice pool change and 2 a point of edge frequently does not particularly represent the difficulty of the situation creating a funny math where something that is supposed to be harder is no harder but may have an effect on difficulty at a later date when the GM has accumulated enough edge to use. And if the math of the difficulty is represented indirectly as opposed to directly it shapes the story differently.

I overall like the new edge system. I have some fine tuning issues with it but it seems fun. Maybe overtime I’ll just get sick of it or something but I do think once we get comfortable with it’s use it will help keep people engaged.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

Depends on if you want to get off of your high horse first.

If you read my thread, which I am sure you are referencing, I am one of two people out of seven that can reliably do simple math in my head.

The others can get the correct answer, given a little time.  Sixth World rarely gives them that time.  Because Edge Points are so volatile.  Kind of like the Pentium Float Bug, the more operations you do in a given time, the more likely an error is going to occur.

Just because I can reliably do mental math, doesn't mean others can.
Just because I can count change, doesn't mean others can.  Really.  Next time you are at a fast food place (assuming you visit them), pay in cash and minimize the amount of change the cashier has to return.  I bet you'll blow their mind.  ((Example:  I had an order that was 6.28.  I gave the nice lady behind the counter 11.28, and she tried to argue with me that I'm paying too much.  I told her to just enter it into the register, and it will take care of the rest.  While she was handing me back the $5 bill she was all a-wonder asking me "how did you do that?" as if I was some sort of magician.))
Just because I can read hexadecimal (not as good as I used to) doesn't mean everyone else can.

When I was trying to run Sixth World, and having to track (almost) everyone elses Edge pool and gains for them - just so I could make sure they didn't screw themselves out of a single point (remember, even 1 point of Edge is significant) it showed the flaws in the system.

Momentum is a much easier system to track.

[Plan_B]

I get that it's different and people don't like it.  That's subjective but people are talking like it's objectively difficult to track or do math on etc. and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or not

One of the the issues I've seen in these forums is how to keep track of Edge gains throughout the turn, especially Edge generated by sequential actions within each player's activation.

Like a wired up Street Sam with two majors getting two Edge by attacking a low DR target, then immediately spending it on their second attack on a different target, which may grant them a 3rd or 4th Edge on their activation. Technically their net Edge for their activation was 2-2+2=2. Do they get to keep the 2 net Edge?

I legitimately do no understand what is so hard about tracking Edge. I've played a few games with it now and, having taken complete newcomers to Shadowrun, watched them grasp the concept without issue. I don't know what is so hard to understand about gaining a maximum of 3 Edge per round regardless of how many things you are involved in. Did you hit the 2 Edge per round cap? No, then gain Edge until you do. If yes, don't gain Edge. When combat is over, any points of Edge over your Edge attribute are lost. Simple, easy, and straight forward. If you want to make it even easier, use poker chips. You only need 7.

[CigarSmoker]

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

Depends on if you want to get off of your high horse first.

If you read my thread, which I am sure you are referencing, I am one of two people out of seven that can reliably do simple math in my head.
[...]

If those 5 people cant reliably add "whole numbers" maybe you could look for a simpler game ? Some Boardgames uses symbols instead of numbers ...
Pen&Papers are made by nerds for nerds ... 2 people carrying 5 is a bit much. No offense meant, but this seems less of a problem with the Edge system.

My solution would be if i were in your shoes as GM:
if they forget to add Edge or use not enough its not my problem. When someone cheats, and i notice it, i stop playing with them anyway.

[skalchemist]

In some ways Edge reminds me of Momentum from the Modiphius system in which actions generate points which  can then be pooled or spent on things from a chart to do awesome things.

I see many people complaining about the math of it etc. but it seems really simple to me.  Perhaps because of my experience with a similar (though admittedly very different) system.

Am I missing something about it's complexity?

One difference between the two mechanics is that Edge is generated before roll, while Momentum in Modiphius's house 2D20 system is generated as a consequence of the roll.  This is related to another key conceptual difference.  Edge seems to be intended to represent circumstances in the situation (armor, positioning, superior weaponry, etc.) that provide a particular character advantages, while Momentum represents the consequences of doing better than you needed to do on a particular action. 

On the practical side, Edge is somewhat more complicated than Momentum for at least two reasons:

* Momentum generated is simply the extra successes generated by the roll.  Edge requires a comparison of two quantities before the roll and a very minor amount of subtraction.
* There is a much larger list of things you can do with Edge compared to Momentum.

As a person who has not yet been able to play 6E, I don't see that Edge is particularly complicated to track/manage.  Its not that much more complicated than Momentum in Star Trek Adventures or Fate points in Fate Core or Hero points in Marvel Heroic Roleplay. 

I have concerns about Edge, but the tracking/management complexity isn't one of them.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

If those 5 people cant reliably add "whole numbers" maybe you could look for a simpler game ? Some Boardgames uses symbols instead of numbers ...
Pen&Papers are made by nerds for nerds ... 2 people carrying 5 is a bit much. No offense meant, but this seems less of a problem with the Edge system.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously after this?

"I'm calling your player (and friends) too dumb to play the 'simplified' Shadowrun^[1], but I'm not trying to be insulting."

Pffft....

[1] Nevermind that there weren't any issues with the 'too complex to be allowed to live" 5e....

[CigarSmoker]

"I'm calling your player (and friends) too dumb to play the 'simplified' Shadowrun^[1], but I'm not trying to be insulting."

The way you are describing your fellow players they could not play D&D (for example) either. Basic math is a precondition. And i am sure you are aware of that. So dont kill the messenger.

[Ghost Rigger]

I get that it's different and people don't like it.  That's subjective but people are talking like it's objectively difficult to track or do math on etc. and I'm wondering if I'm missing something or not

That's not the issue here. The issue is that several perfectly functional mechanics were removed with all the surgical precision of a rusty chainsaw to accommodate the new edge system, and it hasn't been a suitable replacement for those mechanics.

[Michael Chandra]

The Edge tokens that are for sale are literally Shadowrun poker chips.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

The way I've run 6we is everyone stacks two chips in front of them at the start of a new round.  Once you've taken two to add to your pile, you know there's no more to take until the next round.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.