[Mason]

Actually, the mentor he proposed was adding to both combat and health. He just wants to add all 4 to the health spell.

The combat focus dice cannot apply to the health spell; this is true.

[Lanlaorn]

Or the specialization lol.  The rules really aren't that complicated and if you're getting crazy free dice you should probably read it again.

[kirk]

OK, I'm not sure I grasp this splitting. Bear with me a moment.

Assume Spellcasting 5 magic 5. assume an R4 power focus.

If I understand, my split choices are:
By the FAQ I can cast 1 and 17.
By the SR4A I can cast 5 and 13.

Both say that for a single spell I'm casting 14 dice.

Right so far?

[Mason]

Apparently, since a focus does not count as a "dice pool modifier" as far as I can see. If it part of the base pool, you can split it however you want.

I don't care what the FAQ says, though, the foci applies to each spell in my games, not to the total and then you split.

[kirk]

Yeah, I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree.

I'll follow the crowd that says:
The FAQ is not errata and preceded the anniversary printing. Since the anniversary is an errata correction of material as well, conflicts between FAQ and anniversary go to anniversary.

If it's not in conflict I'll take the FAQ's explanation/expansion.

[Lanlaorn]

The FAQ does not contradict SR4A at all. SR4A leaves multicasting completely ambiguous and in the example for it the character has no specialization or focus or mentor spirit affecting the cast.

OK, I'm not sure I grasp this splitting. Bear with me a moment.

Assume Spellcasting 5 magic 5. assume an R4 power focus.

If I understand, my split choices are:
By the FAQ I can cast 1 and 17.
By the SR4A I can cast 5 and 13.

Both say that for a single spell I'm casting 14 dice.

Right so far?

No, look:

1. You have 14 dice to cast with.
2. SR4A says you can split your pool, apply "dice pool modifiers" seperately to each cast
3. FAQ answers the question, what ARE dice pool modifiers here? They're not specializations or foci, mentor spirits probably work. Obviously negative modifiers like visibility apply to each cast.
4. So you could split your dice 7 and 7 or 1 and 13 or 5 and 9, whatever way you want.
5. Some people choose to believe that the focus and specialization count for each split, so in your case you could split those 14 dice into 7, 7, 7, 7 and 6, or effectively 30 dice. More if you wanted.

That's it, that's the entire drama here, and I strongly recommend just skipping all of Max's posts in this thread.

[Mäx]

That's it, that's the entire drama here, and I strongly recommend just skipping all of Max's posts in this thread.

Oh, that's very mature, you can't back up you position in any way by the rules(not even the FAQ ones) so you just recommend other to ignore me.

Seriously your making up a whole lot house rules in your post, my first example is RAW and the last one is FAQ-RAW.

And the FAQ does contradict the SR4A, because it says that "all modifiers not listed as dicepool modifiers add to the base pool"
When the SR4A says "that all modifiers are dicepool modifiers unless otherwise stated", to me that's pretty fraking huge contradiction.

[Lanlaorn]

That's it, that's the entire drama here, and I strongly recommend just skipping all of Max's posts in this thread.

Oh, that's very mature, you can't back up you position in any way by the rules(not even the FAQ ones) so you just recommend other to ignore me.

Seriously your making up a whole lot house rules in your post, my first example is RAW and the last one is FAQ-RAW.

And the FAQ does contradict the SR4A, because it says that "all modifiers not listed as dicepool modifiers add to the base pool"
When the SR4A says "that all modifiers are dicepool modifiers unless otherwise stated", to me that's pretty fraking huge contradiction.

Ok first off, nothing you've posted in this thread is RAW. I've backed up my position multiple times, and really just read over what you've typed. Do you seriously thing that you can apply a combat focus' bonus to a health spell? Because that's explicitly not RAW. Frankly, the "interpretations" you've posted in this thread are a cancer that can only sow discord at tables because someone "read on the forums" that he could gain a few dozen extra dice doing it this way and that's it's rules legal. At this point I should report your posts for trolling but I doubt it will do any good.

Lastly stop selectively quoting SR4A and claiming it helps you, because
1. even on that page you're quoting from it gives examples of other modifiers (e.g. Attribute modifiers and SKILL MODIFIERS, gee I wonder what your specialization and focus could be),
2,. the phrase "Unless otherwise stated, any modifier mentioned is considered to be a dice pool modifier as noted above" is not contradicted by a second document STATING OTHERWISE. The rule in SR4A intentionally leaves open the ability for other text to define what is and isn't a dice pool modifier.

No one who isn't trying to wring extra dice out of the rules for his character is going to come to the conclusions you do. Your entire argument is literally "The rulebook doesn't say explicitly say I can't do this crazy thing, and I choose not to listen to the FAQ that DOES explicitly ban my crazy rules interpretation".

[Mäx]

Ok first off, nothing you've posted in this thread is RAW.

You have posted nothing except the FAQ that shows any part of the first example not working by RAW as my example shows and nothing that shows the last one doesn't work like in my example(if using the FAQ:s rule on modifiers).

1. even on that page you're quoting from it gives examples of other modifiers (e.g. Attribute modifiers and SKILL MODIFIERS, gee I wonder what your specialization and focus could be),

Most definedly not skill modifiers at least, seriously man read the book before spouting of nonsense like this(there are very few thinks that are actually skill modifiers)

The unmodified skill rating assigned at character creation or purchased
during game play is considered to be the character’s base skill
rating. Some abilities and implants (as noted) may increase this rating,
creating a modified skill rating. A modified skill cannot exceed the base
skill rating x 1.5 (making 9 the maximum possible rating, or 10 with
the Aptitude quality). Specializations, spells, and other implants may
provide bonus dice to a skill, but do not change the base skill rating

[kirk]

Gentlemen, if I may interrupt this feud,

I asked to understand. Lanlaorn, your response failed to clarify, though it did so in part.

According to you, the FAQ interpretation is that I can use the power focus once, and so get 14 (not 18) dice to split. However, the way I split was correct in that I can indeed put all but one in one of the spells, with only one die in the other. If that much is incorrect I'd appreciate a clarification.

The interesting bit about 7, 7, 7, 7 and 6 for 30 dice made, well, no sense whatsoever. I don't know where each of those sevens, much less the six, came from. Were you exaggerating, or were you actually explaining the method you claim invalid?

Max, could you explain if, in your opinion, my two possibilities are correct as you read the rules?

If, of course, the two of you prefer your mutual feud I'll take the question private to people whom I deem both likely have time to answer and have historically provided supported and clear answers.

Thank you.

[Mäx]

OK, I'm not sure I grasp this splitting. Bear with me a moment.

Assume Spellcasting 5 magic 5. assume an R4 power focus.

If I understand, my split choices are:
By the FAQ I can cast 1 and 17.
By the SR4A I can cast 5 and 13.

Both say that for a single spell I'm casting 14 dice.

Right so far?

By FAQ
magic 5 + spellcasting 5 + power focus 4 = 14 split how ever you want, so anythink from 1 and 13 to 7 and 7
SR4A
magic 5 + spellcasting 5 = 10 dice split how ever you want + 4 from power focus to both pools, so anythink for 5 and 13 to 9 and 9

Hope this clarifyied it for you.

And he gets those crazy high numbers by assuming a multicasting of maximum number of spell and then counts together the dice from all those different die pools.

[FastJack]

OK, I'm not sure I grasp this splitting. Bear with me a moment.

Assume Spellcasting 5 magic 5. assume an R4 power focus.

If I understand, my split choices are:
By the FAQ I can cast 1 and 17.
By the SR4A I can cast 5 and 13.

Both say that for a single spell I'm casting 14 dice.

Right so far?

By FAQ
magic 5 + spellcasting 5 + power focus 4 = 14 split how ever you want, so anythink from 1 and 13 to 7 and 7
SR4A
magic 5 + spellcasting 5 = 10 dice split how ever you want + 4 from power focus to both pools, so anythink for 5 and 13 to 9 and 9

Hope this clarifyied it for you.

And he gets those crazy high numbers by assuming a multicasting of maximum number of spell and then counts together the dice from all those different die pools.

Alas, I think you're wrong Mäx. Power Foci add their rating to the Magic Attribute for the pool (as per SR4A, p. 201), so your second example is not correct, but the FAQ is right. You don't add Power Foci to the pool after the split. As for the FAQ vs Anniversary, since the Power Foci entry on p. 222 was not altered in any way from the original Core book, I'd have to say the FAQ's explanation is still valid.

As for the "feud", I expect both Mäx AND Lanlaorn to KEEP IT CIVIL. Or warnings will be passed out to both parties, regardless of who "instigates" the feud.

[CanRay]

*Giggles and waits for the carnage* 

[Aspartem]

Ahm, our gaming group are also heavy number crunchers, due to being either in IT, playing Warhammer or similar stuff.

But.. how would you benefit from this rules lawyering? Since this is a RP and the people have to play it in their respective groups it actually doesn't matter what's written in the book/Faq and what not, since any decent GM is going to change the rules as he needs them for his run/campaign.

I know for one, that if i'd show my GM a uber min/maxed char, who can mulitply his dice due to some RAI/RAW lawyering he'll either tell me to make a new char or just kills him in the first run in a very gruesome way to make it clear that you should use common sense when making your character and / or playing.

"Common sense" is a good keyword: A RPG as complicated as Shadowrun (which is probably the game with the most possiblities, synergies and combos possible in any game i've seen/played) prerequisites the use of common sense.
The specialization is an enhancement of the skill and not an added bonus afterwards, you don't get suddenly better because you're casting 2 spells at once. So Magic + Skill(+Spec).
Mentor spirits are the same, they show a certain specialization based on the blelieves / traditions of the caster thus also an embeded basic not a bonus while casting.
Foki are somewhat the cyberware equivalent for mages. Reading their description gives me the image, that they're just boosting the base magic power of a mage - kinda like a big battery. Leads us to Magic + Skill(Spec) + Foki + Mentor Spirit / 2
At least by common sense.

Anyway, the whole discussion simply based on the FAQ/RB won't solve the issue i guess and in the end the GM has the last word anyway.

[Lanlaorn]

Good point Aspartem, I actually deleted something much ruder I had posted since your argument really settles the matter.

I trust that my position is clearly the more sensible one and urge anyone actually reading this thread for how to build their mystic adept to not try to pitch crazy dice splitting to their table lol.