[Palladion]

For the sake of the question, this includes all forms of initiative enhancement (cyber, bio, magical, etc.) that increases initiative passes.  How common or prevalent are they in stories and games?  Are they specialized gear that is actually special or is it something necessary for a good runner's survival?  It is something more exclusive to elite security forces (Red Samurai, Ghosts, etc.) or does everyone have it in some form?

The reason behind the question is for character background and trying to get a general understanding of the power levels between augmented and norms.

[Mirikon]

Getting at least a second initiative pass is pretty much imperative to survival for most character types. Exceptions would be hackers, riggers, mages who focus on conjuration, and possibly a Face. Anyone else should definitely get at least a second IP, if you're going against anything higher than street-level threats. The gangers on the corner likely won't have multiple IPs unless they're shooting combat drugs (in which case, you should keep your distance) but if you're going up against corpsec or more, survival will probably depend on those extra IPs.

[kirschkern]

Thats something that always interested me as well. I haven't read any books so far but guessing from the example npc's it seems that police forces tend to have 1-2 passes while rigger and mages are often stuck with 1.
Anything higher than that tends to be reserved for an extreme minority (at least fluffwise) so it should be pretty rare.

@ Mirikon: I think you missed the point of the question.

[Ernie55]

Runners, in my humble opinion, tend to be up against it odds-wise so getting the edge that extra IPs grant seems very sensible if not essential for surviving the punishing damage of meat-space combats. If a band of say 5 guys is trying to take on a security force of say double or even triple their numbers trying to level the playing fields drastically increases their survival chances. So in the game's I've played in the cyber, adept and mage forms of IP enhancement have been very common.

However, in the stories they get away with a fair bit more handwavium than characters/players do in game. It seems a lot easier for someone to justify not staying ahead of the curve (and therefore not taking the options available eg- no cyber/bio when a mundane) when their general bad-assery gives them super plot armour. Also a lot of the stories I've read were written for previous editions where some of the options were less common

[All4BigGuns]

Probably a good idea to just lock the thread now. This is a very contentious subject with some very...vocal...opinions on the matter.

[Mirikon]

Kirschkern, I didn't miss the point of the question. I just answered the only part of it that truly matters, whether getting the extra IPs was an essential tool to runner survival or not. Which it is, unless you're part of a few select groups.

And Ernie is correct that the books are older editions, where the ware was more expensive and less available. Also, even the newer stuff involves people who have considerable plot armor. PCs don't have plot armor. Therefore, PCs need an edge to survive.

[Aryeonos]

I think a better answer would be to tailor your character to your group and campaign. If you're playing a high powered game extra IPs should be common, and less so to rare for lower powered games. A military setting almost all the soldiers and established PMC/Mercenary groups out there have some baseline bio and cyberware, with wired reflexes 1 being part of it. The militia forces of the world, comprising the greater majority of combatants, would not have wired reflexes but may use drugs in combat though. I would venture to guess that the gunny bunnies and street sams that are professional runners and been around for a little bit mostly all have extra IPs. However the vast majority of on sight security and patrols are not heavily augmented so stay in the one IP range. Drones which make up allot of security for budget reasons have 3 IP each, but often a whole facility, or network of facilities, are run by one rigger to cut costs. The QRT teams that show up if your mission goes loud may or may not have extra IPs across the board, but will most definitely overwhelm you with superior gear but it should take about 5 minutes before they get to you, depending on where you're hitting and who your GM is. On sight spirits should be the same as drones, though they're a bit less frequent.

So as far as your own characters go, you can get by fine with just one IP as long as you're careful and don't try rambo antics, your GM shouldn't penalize you for playing a "Normal" person. But those extra IPs will give you an edge in combat and surviving big scrapes.

At least, that's how it would be in my games, your GM may differ.

[Thrass]

Another option would be to take a look at cyberware suits (and there are new ones in the way of the samurai) to get an impression what typical forces get for upgrades.

[Bewilderbeast]

I'm real new to the game, but what I'm suspecting is that player characters are supposed to be exceptional.

I've heard, for instance, that a dice pool of 12 is pretty much the bare minimum for having any reasonable chance of success in making an attack. So let's say you're trying to punch a dude. But to actually get that 12 dice pool, you need like... 5 or 6 Agility and 5 or 6 in your Unarmed Combat skill, right? According the core book, a 5 or 6 is the peak of human physical ability. It's a professional athlete or what-have-you. So your just-starting-out, fresh off the streets shadowrunner can apparently rival a champion boxer. And that's without even throwing in magic or cyberware.

And this is just one skill! Characters with 5 Agility, 5 Strength, and like 5 Logic aren't uncommon. Your "average" shadowrunner is going to be a Harvard-educated professor that can also wrestle a bear. So clearly player characters are something special. I think this would apply to IP, too.

Common in the world? No. But common and necessary for runners? Yes, if you don't want to die hilariously.

Not that there's anything wrong with dying hilariously...

[Reiper]

Right now it seems, at least 2 IPs is needed for most characters.

I'd like to see 5th ed change just a tad where it isn't almost mandatory anymore. Give them the extra IPs if they want, but make them also pay for it to balance it out against everyone else.

[All4BigGuns]

Right now it seems, at least 2 IPs is needed for most characters.

I'd like to see 5th ed change just a tad where it isn't almost mandatory anymore. Give them the extra IPs if they want, but make them also pay for it to balance it out against everyone else.

Whether it's "mandatory" or not depends on the GM really. If the GM is just constantly putting 3 and 4 pass enemies against the team, then yeah the PCs need to have that many, but if the GM is doing things right then 1 or 2 passes for the PCs is plenty.

[RHat]

Right now it seems, at least 2 IPs is needed for most characters.

I'd like to see 5th ed change just a tad where it isn't almost mandatory anymore. Give them the extra IPs if they want, but make them also pay for it to balance it out against everyone else.

Extra meat IP's is what says you're a combat character.  It's even canon - Lone Star had to develop Jazz to give their mundane guys half a chance taking on Augmented criminals.

People with and without them aren't meant to be balanced against each other - because it's someone in their element versus someone out of their element.  It's what lets you take on a numerically superior force, because it acts directly as a force multiplier.

[Aryeonos]

The balancing factor is the relative cost for extra IPs, either in BP/Karma or Essence. At character creation you could go without the extra IP for improved skills or gear and come close to even with your team mates. But I reiterate it's based on the setting you're playing in.

[RHat]

The balancing factor is the relative cost for extra IPs, either in BP/Karma or Essence. At character creation you could go without the extra IP for improved skills or gear and come close to even with your team mates. But I reiterate it's based on the setting you're playing in.

That first extra IP, and to a lesser extent the second extra, are far more powerful than other things you might do with those points, because they're multiplicative.

And they're supposed to be.

[All4BigGuns]

The balancing factor is the relative cost for extra IPs, either in BP/Karma or Essence. At character creation you could go without the extra IP for improved skills or gear and come close to even with your team mates. But I reiterate it's based on the setting you're playing in.

That first extra IP, and to a lesser extent the second extra, are far more powerful than other things you might do with those points, because they're multiplicative.

And they're supposed to be.

I'll agree on the getting the second pass, but except for the Increase Reflexes spell and Improved Reflexes adept power, I just don't think the 3rd pass is all that worth it for what you have to pay. Awakened kind of have it better on getting that 3rd and 4th pass.