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Should shadow run 5th edition add a few new pc races?

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Reaver

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« Reply #30 on: <12-23-16/1242:44> »
As you said, some ideas are just plain crazy.
Which is fine.... up to the point you want to make 'crazy' a viable thing.

Expecting your nacho cheese controling guy to be effective is not a realistic thing - and you know it (or SHOULD know it!).

And the samething in Shadowrun. Expecting to play a quadrapeldgic martial arts physical Adept is just idiotic. And then whining that your physical adept is "broken and unplayable" - well I hope someone hits you with a phonebook... several times!

My point that SR gives you a ton of options to build just about any type of character you can dream up still stands.

Will every dreamed up character be 'effective'? Most likely not - but you can still do it. And whining that your broken character idea isn't effective has no bearing on the game. That's simply life.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #31 on: <12-23-16/1518:59> »
Actually, the nacho cheese controller WAS pretty effective. Keep a ready supply of nacho cheese to use as weapons, sewing packets of the stuff into your costume to allow you to 'fly', and having secondary talents not related to powers (such as skill with a shotgun). Takes a bit of creativity and prep work, and certainly not as overwhelming as someone who controls metals, but quite effective if you are smart. Oh sure, it was nowhere near my most powerful character (that award goes to either the cold controller, the psychic, or the necromancer), but certainly effective within his weight class.

A quadraplegic martial arts adept is unrealistic, yes. But making a quadraplegic rigger/samurai (using an anthromorph drone), or an AI samurai (also using an anthromorph drone) are quite within the realm of possibility, and the way the system is set up actively works to make those things difficult as all hell to pull off.
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Dinendae

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« Reply #32 on: <12-23-16/2022:06> »
Quote
14 infected races....
Which book are the Caribbean Infected variants in?


I believe it was Hard Targets; at least that is where the Caribbean Life Modules are from.

Sipowitz

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« Reply #33 on: <12-26-16/1604:33> »
Wait Sipowitz, you're saying 30+ base races, over 50 weapons, 100+ pieces of ware, 50+ magical abilities, 7 base archtypes, and NO limitations on appreance, morals, ethics, or actions "Rote"????

I don't think that word means what you think it means :D

If you want to talk Rote games, go look at DnD 4e.... everything is boiled down to 2 choices per class, with each class being a different flavor of the dame thing!
Nope, I know exactly what Rote means.
Quote
Rote
1. routine; a fixed, habitual, or mechanical course of procedure
2. mechanical or unthinking routine or repetition
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rote
That is why I said
"I'm of the opinion that it is caused by rote-ness.
Everything else in/about the game has become regulated(for what/however reasons) that the only thing they can change is race."


It is, imo, the same when you go to a Con sit down with your character and you get those sighs, eye rolls, and what nots if you are playing X and haven't taken the unthinking routine X is suppose to take.

Vormaerin

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« Reply #34 on: <12-28-16/2222:41> »
Frankly, I'd just like some artwork showing what the creators actually think some of these races look like, particularly since they are often not the "normal" gaming versions.   For instance, what does a Nocturne elf actually look like?  How obvious is the hair/fur?  The only picture of a character described as as Nocturne (the ex assassin in the Seattle set) looks nothing like the Nocturne described in Run Faster.  (presumably had cosmetic surgery at some point, which is fine.  But useless for helping anyone visualize the racial type).

From a gaming point of view, I'm mostly just not interested in the races that are so far from human norms of size/locomotion that they require special treatment in mission design.  Otherwise, I'd love to have far more regional variants of metahumanity. 

Dwagonzhan

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« Reply #35 on: <12-28-16/2228:07> »
Well, hopefully the drake rewrite I and a couple others have been working on will put a little spin into that.
It's written from the perspective that an active drake is a dracoform first, and a metahuman "agent" second (but is still metahuman enough to retain who they are and what they value).

Y'know...instead of a runner with closest-superhero powers, like how drakes are currently written.
(and after that, is the SURGE and Shapeshifter revisions; because oh man are those freaky and confusing at my table as written)
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DeathofVirtue

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« Reply #36 on: <12-29-16/0916:57> »
It is part of the reason D&D 4e sucked so hard, and why D&D 5th isn't much better. It is why you don't see this problem nearly as much in systems like Mutants and Masterminds or Champions. Why? Because in M&M or Champions, literally everything is possible, though it may take work with the DM to translate some things. Sure, I can do an M&M character that has, say, Cold Control powers, with fighting skills and appropriate gear. That's easy. I can also easily do someone with the ability of Nacho Cheese Control, and make them able to do crazy shit with that. And because I spent an hour making the character just to say I can, I have it out of my system, and play the cold controller in games.

See, sometimes people get an idea in their head, and if they aren't able to work that idea into something playable, then it is going to bug them constantly until they get it out of their system. Which means they're going to bug their DM about it, or keep suggesting it here, or other places. Sure, the idea might be as stupid as Nacho Cheese Control. But once it is out of their system, they'll be able to consider more 'normal' concepts.

  Only just got round to reading this thread but I'm guilty of this to a certain extent, sometimes I get the craving to build a really exotic pc or npc and have been known to spend several days in my books building them and making them work, just because something is a rare occurance in sr does not mean it never appears, on the contrary it makes that time when you do encounter it all the more memorable.

  On to the topic of actually playing an extremely rare race etc.  If I'm building one of these characters that some people might consider as a "look at me" the first thing I consider is the setting, lets say an anthropomorphic kitsune was a race for example and I had one it's not something I would likley play as a pc in mirrorshades or black trenchcoat groups doing normal runs, but not all games are set like this in fact some games can have situations where this kitsune would fit rather well.

  Next is how you play the character, if your just being the attention grabbing special snowflake that thinks it's all about them, yeah it's a problem.  If however you are able to get a feel for the character you can add lots of little details that add realism and depth to it without making the game "all about you" in fact it can even encourage other players to flesh out their manorisms, little subconscious habbits and things like that.

  Next up is other players recognising the difference between when somone is grabbing attention due to acting like a special snowflake and when somone is the center of attention for other reasons.  It sounds obvious right?  You would be wrong, I have seen players singled out because the group EXPECTED them to act like a special snowflake so when they briefly became the center of attention for a completley different reason some members of the group treat the pc like he's a special snowflake from that point on.

  This brings me to my final point, I wish people would be more accepting of characters outside the "norm", if I'm playing one like that it's because I really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable, not because I want to be the center of attention and the same is true of most of the people I have seen playing them, yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of...  stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
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Slipperychicken

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« Reply #37 on: <12-30-16/0028:46> »
Frankly, I'd just like some artwork showing what the creators actually think some of these races look like, particularly since they are often not the "normal" gaming versions.   For instance, what does a Nocturne elf actually look like?  How obvious is the hair/fur?  The only picture of a character described as as Nocturne (the ex assassin in the Seattle set) looks nothing like the Nocturne described in Run Faster.  (presumably had cosmetic surgery at some point, which is fine.  But useless for helping anyone visualize the racial type).

Same here. There are a lot of things in shadowrun that desperately need illustration. We have pictures for most guns, but entire player-races are apparently not as important as the difference between an AK-97 and an AK-98.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #38 on: <12-30-16/0110:05> »
The biggest problem with that is, of course, money. Art is *expensive*. I have a list of things that I want to see done up in art, some of which haven't been done since the game started in '89 but which are still kind of vital to know, but, well... no money. (Plus, I'm  just a keyboard for hire, not an art director.)

Which... hrm. Now I wonder a bit about the payrate for the PDF line. I know that many of them have B&W art, which is cheaper than color, and is where new artists often get a tryout. There's probably room in there for some stuff.

Hrm.

Now I'm pondering things!

Medicineman

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« Reply #39 on: <12-30-16/0202:22> »
Can't you use the German Illustrations(From Pegasus) of the Races/Metavariants ? They're both in the 4A and 5th Ed Runners Compendium. Even in Colors

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« Last Edit: <12-30-16/0205:15> by Medicineman »
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Reaver

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« Reply #40 on: <12-30-16/1145:41> »
Can't you use the German Illustrations(From Pegasus) of the Races/Metavariants ? They're both in the 4A and 5th Ed Runners Compendium. Even in Colors

with a colored Dance
Medicienman

First guess would be "no".

Copyrights are tricky things... so much so there are armies of lawyers who specialize only onto copyright law!

My guess would be that the artists signed over the artwork to Pegasus, possibly for use in a single book, and not to Shadowrun or to Catalyst.....

Which means catalyst could have a lawsuit on their hands if they used the artwork...

Never, ever make light of the power of copyrihht laws! Multimillion dollar companies have gone belly up because of infringments!
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MijRai

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« Reply #41 on: <12-30-16/1249:57> »
Art is definitely expensive; on top of that, spot-pieces (your stand-alone pictures of weapons and other 'simple' objects) are cheaper than characters or partial pages. 

I have an illustrator friend currently in the field (who has done work for Shadowrun this edition, no less), so I hear a bit about how illustration works from the artist's perspective. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

RowanTheFox

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« Reply #42 on: <12-30-16/1713:56> »
Know what I want to see? Parageology for fragging 5th ed. There's so much cool stuff in there that I really, really want to see transferred over to 5th. Ukkru, Psilosen, Ithium, etc...
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Sipowitz

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« Reply #43 on: <12-31-16/0249:25> »
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of...  stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not.  Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.

You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.

Sterling

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« Reply #44 on: <12-31-16/0614:45> »
yes there are special snowflakes out there but for the love of...  stop assuming anyone who picks a character that can be played like one IS one, the odds are you are ruining the game for that player just as much as they would be for everyone else and they probably haven't done anything to deserve it.
The problem with this is the odds heavily favor the one IS one more so than not.  Groups don't like to go through the 8-9 one IS ones to find the one ISN'T one.

You may want to ponder that while you really dig the race and unique challenges it can bring and as a result find it enjoyable there is 3-9 others around the table who may not be finding the unique challenges your character is experiencing enjoyable.

This problem is exacerbated when someone wants to bring in a unique character into an existing game.  Whilst the players may be open to allowing the visually distinctive newbie you have to consider the characters - are you expecting 5-6 characters to suddenly overlook any issues and allow the infected / SURGE'd / centaur / pixie into the team no questions asked?

If its a new game then I'd hope that a quick chat beforehand would allow everyone to know what was being played and to adjust as required.

In short, all players need to consider everyone's enjoyment, including a player who wants to play a special character.
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