[Mäx]

Well, you see, I found that interesting. I have never thought that net hits would apply to electricity damage. Nor burst fire...if three bullets hit, its three times against 6S(e) but no 6+1+1S(e). Maybe this is something I don`t understand...but if you got hit twice with the stun baton 8S(e) you are saving against twice against 8S, not (8+1)S

Stick and shock ammo works exactly same as all the other ammo type, so yes net hits ably and burst fire is +1 damage per additional bullet.
Stun baton on the other hand works like all the other melee weapons, so nets hits ably and there is no equivalent for burst fire so that part of your post is meaningless(Bullets also do their base damage again if their from different attack then the last bullet)

To glarify a burst of 3 bullets is base DV+2+net hits, but if your just shot 3 times then you soak 3 times the base DV + net hits(might be different amount for all 3 shots), using ammo that does electrical damage changes absolutely nothing about how the ranged combat works.

[Sichr]

Read the rules before you smite someone, please:

Stick-n-Shock: This is a special adhesive projectile that sticks to
the target and incorporates a battery pack that delivers short bursts of
high-voltage pulses. Te Stick-n-Shock replaces the weapon’s Damage
Value with its own.

Electrical damage is treated as Stun damage and resisted with half Impact armor (round-
ed up)—metallic armor, however, ofers no protection. Te nonconductive armor upgrade
(p. 327) adds its full rating to the armor value. Other factors may modify the target’s damage
resistance test at the gamemaster’s choosing, such as lack of grounding (a character fying by
levitation spell) or extra conductivity (a character immersed in water).
A successful Electricity damage attack can stun and incapacitate the target as well. Te
struck target must make a Body + Willpower (3) Test. Apply half the character’s Impact
armor (round down) and any other dice pool modifers as noted above to this test. If the
target fails, he immediately falls and is incapacitated for a number of Combat Turns equal
to 2 + net hits scored on the attack test. Even if the target succeeds, he sufers a –2 dice
pool modifer to all action tests due to disorientation from the shock for the same period.
Incapacitated characters are prone and unable to take any actions.
Electronic equipment, vehicles, and drones can also be afected by Electricity damage.
Tey never sufer Stun damage, but they do roll Body + Armor (drones and vehicles) or
Armor x 2 (other objects) to resist secondary efects. If they achieve equal or more hits than
the attack, they are unafected. Otherwise, they cease to function for a number of Combat
Turns equal to 2 + net hits scored on the attack test (and may need to reboot afer that).

What Im saying is that net hits would extend the effect (2+NET hits scored) of incapacitation, but damage would be 6S(e) no matter how many rounds you fired and no matter the gun you are firing it...

[Sichr]

Simply put: Stick n Shock: your answer for anything in armour that is not a vehicle.

Troll with only 20 points of armor and no noncondactivity ugrade at all on it isn't in any way a high armor problem PC being discussed in this topic.

So this troll of yours with 20 impact armor do not need to care about stick`n`shocks, Even impact armor 12 makes them useless.

[The_Gun_Nut]

It doesn't say that damage is not increased by net hits, it simply adds that net hits increase the duration.

[Charybdis]

It doesn't say that damage is not increased by net hits, it simply adds that net hits increase the duration.

I'm with Gun Nut.

Stick n'Shock damage reads to me that a low-calibre weapon (ie Machine pistol, 4P damage) replaces the base damage with those of the Stick n'Shock 6S(e)

If said machine pistol now fires a 3-round burst with 4 net success, damage from said weapon = 6 (ammo) +2 (burst) +4 = 12S(e).

As this is an electrical attack, damage is resisted with 1/2 impact armour (plus any non-conductivity upgrade) as per a normal electrical attack.

I like this actually, because it means Stickn'Shocks are less likely to pop up in high-calibre sniper rifles

I don't understand any theory advising that Stick-n'Shocks get zero benefit from burst fire.
A normal bullet gets a bonus increase, why not a Taser bullet?

[Sichr]

But the Stick`n`shock damage is not kinetic damage, as for normal bullets, but Electricity damage. So this damage increase doesnt make any sense. It doesnt matter how good you hit. If you hit ANY part of the body, damage is done, so the net hits doesn make sense. Increasing damage by spraying more bullets, thats something different, but I dont think that +1/ bullet is adequate to multiple taser shocks with the same intensity and voltage...

[Mäx]

But the Stick`n`shock damage is not kinetic damage, as for normal bullets, but Electricity damage. So this damage increase doesnt make any sense. It doesnt matter how good you hit. If you hit ANY part of the body, damage is done, so the net hits doesn make sense. Increasing damage by spraying more bullets, thats something different, but I dont think that +1/ bullet is adequate to multiple taser shocks with the same intensity and voltage...

That maybe your IRL opinion, but that has no bearing on how the game rules work and by the rules S&S work exactly like any other ammo when it comes to net hits and burst/auto fire.

Also i didn't smite you, i just explained how the rules work and how your comparison of S&S ammo and stun baton isn't in any way valid, as you wheren't comparing those 2 specifically you where comparing the base differences between melee and ranged combat.

[Sichr]

OK. No animozities.

That maybe your IRL opinion, but that has no bearing on how the game rules work and by the rules S&S work exactly like any other ammo when it comes to net hits and burst/auto fire.

Well this is what I understand other way, as i linked the rules previously and thus this will be my opinion in my mastering. Any weapon damage is replaced by 6S(e) even weapon damage modified by burst or autofire. And Electrical damage is dealt with other way than normal damage, net hits added to incapacitation period.
Well, it would be realistic to increase damage by burst or autofire, but not by net hits

Also i didn't smite you, i just explained how the rules work and how your comparison of S&S ammo and stun baton isn't in any way valid, as you wheren't comparing those 2 specifically you where comparing the base differences between melee and ranged combat.

I have not compared melee and ranged attacks but principle of electricity damage. I know it was a stupid example. Sorry

[Medicineman]

By RAW you have to raise the Damage by Net hits as well as by Burstfire....but a lot of Groups I know of (2 of my own also) houserule S&S Ammo because its quite imbalanced
One often used Houserule is not to raise Damage by net hits . In our Groups we still raise damage by Burst Fire though

with a more balanced Dance
Medicineman

[Charybdis]

Well, it would be realistic to increase damage by burst or autofire, but not by net hits

Seems a strange line to draw...Net hits reflect shot accuracy. An electrical attack to the neck is going to be more effective than an attack to the leg.

And if you're hitting with more of the electrical charges, then it seems logical that a burts of such ammo will be more incapacitating than a single shot (or would you instead rule that a long burst with 9 of these bullets from an SMG still only does 6S(e)? Seems illogical)

Seems much more logical to treat Stick n'Shocks like any other ammo, just with a different base DV as per the description, that trumps normal weapon calibre DV.

As a side note, if there was a burst fire taser weapon (like a modified Defiance Supershock), would that increase the damage?
In my mind, it certainly would.... more simultaneous Electrical shocks = more damage
Ergo, Stick n'Shocks should follow the same principle.

[FastJack]

The way I understand it (and rule it in my game), is that the S&S ammo doesn't do any impact damage since it simply has a gummy adhesive to stick to the target and shock them with a battery pack (kinda like the explosives Batman used in Hong Kong in The Dark Knight). And, since it doesn't do impact damage, then extra hits won't translate into extra damage.

Of course, with everything else, the topic on S&S has been bandied about many times already because of the possibility of abuse*. So it all comes back to the GM's call on the matter (unless/until the Crew revisit S&S and put out official errata changing its nature).

*for instance, if you burst fire three rounds, would you then treat every round as a separate attack? As per the Combat FAQ on Shock Gloves.

[Charybdis]

*for instance, if you burst fire three rounds, would you then treat every round as a separate attack? As per the Combat FAQ on Shock Gloves.

I don't see why you would.
You don't do this for any other burst firing weapon. Why would S&S be any different?

Query: Someone invented burst firing shock gloves to raise this as an issue? 

[Mäx]

And, since it doesn't do impact damage, then extra hits won't translate into extra damage.

Do you rule this only for S&S, all electrical damage or all damage that's not kinetic.
If it's anythink other then the last one, then your illogically nerfing S&S compared to everythink else.
And even if it's the last one, it's still doesn't make much sense, as kinetic damage isn't the only kind of damage that can benefit from a better hit.

[FastJack]

*for instance, if you burst fire three rounds, would you then treat every round as a separate attack? As per the Combat FAQ on Shock Gloves.

I don't see why you would.
You don't do this for any other burst firing weapon. Why would S&S be any different?

Query: Someone invented burst firing shock gloves to raise this as an issue? 

Well, technically, when you burst fire and choose to raise the Damage Code by X, then you are. Each bullet does less damage than the first because it's not as accurate, but you do get extra damage.

And, no, the Shock Gloves aren't Burst-fire. I point out that if your PC wears two shock gloves, each glove has it's own attack.

[FastJack]

And, since it doesn't do impact damage, then extra hits won't translate into extra damage.

Do you rule this only for S&S, all electrical damage or all damage that's not kinetic.
If it's anythink other then the last one, then your illogically nerfing S&S compared to everythink else.
And even if it's the last one, it's still doesn't make much sense, as kinetic damage isn't the only kind of damage that can benefit from a better hit.

The first one. And yes, it is a nerf on S&S since I think it is a wee-bit over-powered for an less-lethal weapon.